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at Toronto Raptors Sunday December 27 1:00 pm

Discussion in 'December 2009' started by roscoe36, Nov 3, 2009.

  1. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    And Rip was wrong. He fouled the other guy before the other guy took a swipe at him.

    Some parts of the rotation were ok. But going small at small forward is never ok. We have played JJ at small forward for many, many games, but tonight we just had to revert back to small ball. There is no excuse whatsoever for this. Starting JJ at power forward does not preclude him from playing some at small forward too to back up Tay. Or play Daye there. Or Summers. Anything but small ball.

    Removing one person for each person added to the rotation leaves us with not one bit more of energy than when we started.
     
  2. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    the problem is that by playing players 20-25 min per game - you do not get them to the rhythm. Especially when players have seen each other on the court less than couple of games. Only very few teams can afford that what you propose - San Antonio, but their vets have played together YEARS and there is nothing new to them.

    If you want to see what they can do - you have to play them good and bad periods - they were so out of sync that the best cure is to play them.
     
  3. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Hard to draw any conclusions from this drastic lineup change...
    BG & Rip will not be shooting in the 30% range...
    Tay actually looked pretty good his first game back (he was wincing near the end)...
    It's like learning your teammates all over again.
    I would like to see Wilcox remain as a steady rotation guy.
    I doubt that Tay & Rip will play less than 30 minutes... especially if they're being showcased.
     
  4. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Lets say we played Daye 8 minutes, cutting 8 minutes of small ball out of there. And lets say we played JJ at small forward 5 of his minutes, giving JMAX about 10 minutes for the game while cutting another 5 minutes of small ball out of there. (And having JMAX in there at the end of the game - not 3 guards, making it 15 minutes for JMAX.)

    Do you think that cuts anyone's minutes all that much. It does not. The rotation used tonight was not that bad, except in regards to how we handled backup small forward - and backup power forward at the end of the game.

    Playing guys like Rip (terrible), and Stuckey at small forward should simply never happen, and its something the players need never get use to. Ditto for playing Tay at power forward.

    While on the subject, its great that the coach broke up the pairing of JMAX and Ben Wallace, but I believe its Ben Wallace that should be coming off the bench. For one, with Ben Wallace coming off the bench, we all know he would still play at least. The same can't be said for JMAX. Both Ben Wallace and JMAX bring much needed interior defense, and we need both playing.

    Meanwhile, when you have a good post up player, like Wilcox, its a no brainer that he should be starting, and we should be developing a post game - to start the game.

    Stuckey, Rip, Tay, JMAX, Wilcox. Not a bad starting unit.

    This leaves Bynum, Gordon, Daye, JJ, Ben Wallace for bench players. But this leaves CV out. Solution - see if we can't make Gordon play some point guard, giving us Gordon, Daye, JJ, CV, and Ben Wallace for the bench.
     
  5. HelloIDistance

    HelloIDistance First Round Draft Pick

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    Wilcox a post player? Haha right. Jmax and Wilcox starting would be the worst starting front court in the league. That thought of this lineup makes me cringe. It's sad when a 35 year old player is our best front court option, but on this team it's a reality.
     
  6. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I am going to respond to your post a 2nd time, with the numbers from the boxscore. We were plus 9 with Tay in the game at small forward. (You got to read the play by play to get this.)

    So, as a team playing a traditional unit, a point guard at the point, a shooting guard at shooting guard, etc, we did just fine. But we were minus 16 otherwise. When we went small, we did poorly. And there was no need, not any at all with all players available, to go small. Coaching loss.
     
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Great to see Tay, Rip, and Ben Gordon back. Much more competitive already and there was some real rust.

    Hopefully before the end of the season, we will get to witness this team at full strength for a few games.
     
  8. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Shhhhhhiiiii....what game where you watching, Bosh was giving Ben the business early on, it was no contest.

    Maybe not an excuse, but a reason, bengo and Rip HAVE to get their minutes, it's the ugly BS side of the NBA....It's political Lee, the only way Rip and Bengo can BOTH get 'their' minutes is for Rip to log some mins at SF. This is WAAAAAYY out of Q's hands.

    JJ did get mins at SF, there was a lineup of CV, Wilcox and JJ upfront in the 1st half.
     
  9. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    The Pistons lost their chance to pull this one out with about 3:30-4 minutes to go and Gordon missed a wide open 3 that came off of either great movement or (more likely) an offensive board. 9 out of 10 times he'll hit that.

    I think the Pistons best player down the stretch may have been Sonny Weems.

    I don't really have a problem with this version of small ball. In fact, I think Stuckey did a nice job guarding Turkoglu at the end.

    Hot Rod got kind of lost offensively with everyone back.

    Generally speaking the offense didn't revolve mainly around Rip and his screens.

    The Pistons got the short end of several loose ball situations with their 24 second violation just as the Raps knocked the ball out of bounds being the worst.

    I think I'd like to live in Toronto. I enjoyed the curling sequence in the opening and the young Canadian women at the game seemed like Borat would say very nice!

    What is Punjabi though? I'm down with the Singh boys whatever it is.
     
  10. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Good to see us getting players back, the body language of Stuckey and JJ looked 100x's better as a result.

    Glad to see JJ remain in the starting lineup at PF, his defense will only be better playing with a team of guys that know how to play.

    Bynum needs to shut it down and get that ankle healthy, much like CV, he can not play hurt like some players can.....he was just awful out there and it's showing up in his game and in his mind.

    I'm excited about the potential of this team when everyone is healthy, even with Stuckey at PG. BUT! Let me say this, when you have Bengo, CV, Rip, and Tay on the court together.....YOU SHOULDN'T STRUGGLE TO GET GOOD LOOKS!!!! A really good PG should avg 10+asts with that unit, but he has to know how to set and serve the table.

    Nice to see Wilcox has ZERO intentions of surrendering his playing time back to Kwame, if Good Chris Wilcox shows up for this team, he can take us to another level when (or if) we get everyone healthy.

    The refs were A-W-F-U-L!!!! It reminded me of one of those movies that depicts a black sports team from the 60's, that's playing a white team and the racially biased refs make a ton of HORRIBLE calls to undercut the black teams success. That 6th foul on JJ was unexplainably bad....Rip was getting mauled, Stuckey NEVER gets a call, Bengo was HACKED!!! I mean this tape needs to be sent to the league.
     
  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Good to talk to someone who is paying close attention to the games, even during a long losing streak.

    JJ did play 5 minutes at small forward. But we had 3 times that in small ball.

    Nope, I won't buy it for a moment that this coach can't make a decision to only play small forwards at small forward, or not to play Tay at PF.

    Like someone said, Ernie I think, Stuckey did do a good enough job guarding a small forward. As far as I can see Stuckey is a better defensive small forward vs. Rip. But hey, I would rather see the guards using all their energy guarding guards.

    In this game, for the most part if Bynum was playing, he was playing the point with Stuckey resting. (save 3.5 minutes) This is pretty good. It means Bynum, whether he himself is doing good or bad, is at least directly resting one of our starters.

    So the problem really came from trying to fit two shooting guards into the rotation. In this game, with both Rip and Gordon coming off injuries, surely they could have just split the minutes down the middle at shooting guard.

    But what about the games going forward. Absolutely, there is a problem. But the problem has two solutions. One involves eliminating Bynum's playing time. The other involves us going small. I say start playing Gordon at point.

    Gordon playing some point means we take the guy who is currently the smallest guy in our rotation out of it, while staying big at small forward. We simply stay a taller team. Now, Bynum is surely a better point guard than Gordon, or is he. Lets find out. Is Bynum really that much better than Gordon at point to make up for us going small? I doubt it.
     
  12. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If Pistons keep losing, they should be in position to draft the next Bargnani. He is projected to go in the top 5 in the 2010 draft.


    Donatas Motiejunas | NBADraft.net
     
  13. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    19 year old kid from the former Eastern Block.

    "Versatile lefty bigman with a high ceiling ... Has a lot of potential due to his size, agility and offensive development ... A finesse 4-man with excellent versatility, but shows the toughness to play inside with contact ... Shows a strong ability to run the floor and change directions, start and stop ... Has great legs (strong) and feet (quick) ... Has inside/outside ability with the ability to defend inside and play with his back to the basket, as well as knock down shots on the perimeter ...

    Is extremely talented and he knows it. At times he doesn't keep the pedal to the metal, exhibiting some lapses in focus and intensity (laziness) in practices ... Sometimes appears content to be better than others without dominating them the way he's capable ... "

    Sounds like YKW. Should really get some fans excited around here.
     
  14. max

    max All-Star

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    Looks more like the next Darko.
     
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Is he from a war torn Country?

    That would be the deciding factor for me.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I don't think people are aware of the Bargnani story. He was already known as Il Mago (The magician) in the Italian league before he was drafted. When the Raps drafted him, they brought his mentor from Italy over and gave him a front office position related to international player development or scouting iirc.

    Bargnani is everything Darko was supposed to be. There was loads of tape of this guy playing before he was drafted.
     
  17. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Joe is more shell shocked than a Vietnam Vet after the Darko debacle. No way he drafts a young unproven foreign big man ever again. Carmelo, Bosh, Wade, or even Kaman....we got YKW.....No Dice.
     
  18. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I concur, and we don't want to go down that road again with a top pick...stick to a player that everybody knows and everybody has seen....
     
  19. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Absolutely the truth.... to the point that it could bite him someday (passing on a Dirk type)
     
  20. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    ...Dirko?
     

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