At Toronto Raptors March 13th, 7:00 PM

Discussion in 'March 2009' started by Dlev59, Mar 8, 2009.

  1. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    All 3. Let's say he is on this current team now minus those 2. They would be a player short still losing 2 for 1 so the assumption isn't fair. I tend to think the team is a little worse off.
  2. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I agree with this, but it's iffy on who the other big would be. It would probably have to be a Rasheed Wallace/Ben Wallace defender type (hell, it could be Sheed if we got Bosh next year). I feel like he's slowed down, but not entirely as much as ppl think.

    Also in terms of money, economy and all, i don't believe that there aren't going to be teams out there that aren't willing to throw max money at him especially the Knicks if they strike out elsewhere. Ultimately, i don't want to invest that much money in someone who's not a "game-changer" and that's what i feel like it will take to get him. TOR has really underachieved, and Bosh is the "face" of that team.

    However, if he comes with a reasonable price tag, then by all means we should go for it.

    Also, I went on the TOR board to get a general opinion of what they feel Bosh's value is and there pretty much in the same line of he doesn't deserve the max, but someone will give it to him, and they are sort of hoping it's not them. And the biggest critique of his game is that he doesn't elevate the rest of the team's play.

    Bosh is not going to give us the superstar we never had or even the post-player we all want so i'm not really sure why he's such a big draw. In a way it's almost like getting Sheed lite on offense without the defense.

    I'd probably give it two months before someone complains about the fact that for a big all he does is shoot jumpshots.
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ok. Well, I think we agree then.

    Or not. lol

    I think Bosh plays best with a bruiser next to him. Rasho + Bosh was good enough to win 47 games before Calderon broke out.
  4. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    I give Rip credit (he was Mr. Roller Coaster tonight)....

    BUT.... I seriously question any coach that runs so much offense through 1 guy that he can have 26 FGAs, 16 assists, 6 TOs, and 7FTA. Not even counting all of the possessions where he passed to players who missed shots, that is 50 possessions. Unless you're Cleveland or Miami, I don't see how you can have 1 guy dominating the ball that much. Rip is not Lebron.
  5. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Pretty-much how I see it. They have a sharp GM and so-so coach. This is what will hurt Bosh if things don't change on this club. Sound familiar?

    Could be that JD might be able to act up, do his groveling routine and take Pops off their hands. They are nuts in not starting this kid.
  6. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Good post.
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I must say, at least you are consistent. Tearing down our roster, but this time, even after a win.

    You are highly overvaluing Bosh, and highly undervaluing our youth. Defense is part of the game. What Bosh is, defensively, is a power forward. Not a center. Centers you pay top dollar for. Power forwards are much more readily available.

    And look at it in terms of money. This game, JMAX shut down Bosh on many occasions, and only missed one shot himself. Who gave the most for the money?

    You like Dyess much more than our young bigs? But hey, Dyess is a center these days, incapable of playing power forward defensively, while two of our young bigs are pretty darn solid defensive power forwards. Its not really adding any value to the discussion talking about who is better. Its who can do what job. You pair up Dyess and one of our young power forwards, you just might win a game.

    Kwame is our other young big. Depending on what you ask him to do, he may do that task better than Dyess, or worse. Here is what he can do for now, for sure - play well enough to give Dyess a breather in each half. That is important too. Going forward, hopefully he will play enough to limit both Dyess' and Sheed's minutes so those two will be fresh for the playoffs. Plus, there will be matchups where Kwame fits well, and he will be ready to play for all the time he has been getting to this point.

    Two of our other youngins these days, Afflalo and Bynum, actually play defense, and play enough offense too, that they can get minutes without hurting the team. (And in Afflalo's case, the more he plays, the more we win.)

    You are right about one thing - if you consider Herrmann one of our youth, for sure, trading him away would not hurt a thing.

    But otherwise, our youngins are pretty darn good, possesing a whole lot of skills that contribute to winning games.
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Since this was the first game in a long time that the Pistons played small ball, I feel that it is my duty to report the results.

    SB -7
    BB +11

    Feels like old times.

    Also, there was a very strange combo that was played for the last 1:06 of the first half.

    Stuckey- PG/SG
    Afflalo- SG/SF
    Prince- SF
    Herrmann- SF/PF
    Dyess- PF

    3 guys on the court who have all spent significant time at the SF position this year. Add on an oversized PG and an undersized C. This is MEDIUM BALL. And now, everything has officially been tried.

    I love it.
  9. max

    max All-Star

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    I wonder what would have happened if we would have drafted Bosh instead of Darko. Would we have still made the trade for Sheed? Probably since it was steal at the time. He would not have started for his 1st three years behind the 2 Wallaces. In 04 he would not have played much behind Okur and Corliss. If Dumars would have still signed Dyess in 04-05 then we may have had the same problem of having to trade a disgruntled player. Would Bosh still be Bosh?

    He has benifited from always getting guaranteed PT. Guess its a mute point since we are probably not getting Bosh. They are going to spend much of that money this summer and next there will be too many teams to compete against.
  10. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Lee, I worry when Hermann is in the game. Sometimes he contributes, but I do worry because he is poor on defense.

    Our young bigs all have something to contribute--most NBA players do. Kwame can play the big centers. But that contribution is negated in most other areas--his movemnt or reaction (because it seems he can move) is limited. He is no Ben back there. And his offense is an adventure at best.

    JMax. Some really nice games as I have commented here and there. That one Cleveland game for sure. But has he put up numbers in even two games in a row? Surely not three. Yes, he made the block and we won. But he let that guy have the rebound with 5 seconds left (see Curry's comments). His rebounding on the defensive side is average to poor comparing him to other players around the league. Jmax has started to hit the jumper but his shot is still scary. He hit 6 of 7 free throws the other day but his free throws are suspect. He is a nice role player but very doubtful as a replacement for Dyss and Sheed who will not be here forever and who were and still are incredibly skilled players. What bothers me is that even though undersized, he is not that quick. What he has impressed me with is defense right under the basket.

    Amir. I don't mind the fouls like others. But I have yet to see the impact that I would want out of a player who has a limited offense. Give him the ball you say. Yes, he will score more but he is not a threat. When we are talking about replacing Sheed, we are replacing a guy who played in seven conference finals. Amir cannot be expected to do that.

    The three young bigs have not had the defensive impact to make the Pistons reach another level. The team defense has been poor all year. Poor. For the Piston defense to be good, the young bigs need to have an impact MOST games as the team has a poor perimeter defense and the main bigs are old. You are right about Dyss and Sheed together but I don't think Curry has the choice. You can only go with lack of production for so long--from the young bigs.

    Take Hermann again, he is suppose to spread the floor and hit the three. If he really did that, I could overlook his defense for about a five minute spurt. But he doesn't score all that consistently. The overall contribution is not enough. And our young bigs cannot help us spread the floor as they are not really jump shooters.

    So when I look at our young bigs, I see only role players with limited offense, sporadic defense and I would wait for the summer as I feel that Joe will deal for a big.

    In the meantime, I will root for all Pistons and hope that the team can make some noise. By the way, I love the play of Rip, Tay and Dyss and have hopes for Stuckey. Sheed has not put out consistently and may be playing hurt.
  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    To me, you are simply missing the whole point. Amir and JMAX are not replacements for Sheed and Dyess.

    Sheed and Dyess, because they are older and slower, are centers.

    JMAX and Amir are power forwards.

    Neither of the first two should be playing any minutes of the other two, and vice versa.

    As far as replacing any of them - in my opinion what we have up front is good enough to win it all this year.

    When we beat the Lakers early in the season, that was no fluke. Kwame and Sheed match up very well with Bynum and Gasol for the Lakers. The Lakers were at full strength and simply not good enough to beat us.

    When we beat Cleveland about the same time, again, we were just too good. JMAX in particular had their number, shutting down their pick and roll defense almost single handedly.

    Sure we have not beaten Boston with Garnett yet. But neither has Curry actually played our best rotations against them. Boston has their big three - we got a whole lot better than that with Rip, Tay, Sheed, AI, Dyess, and Stuckey all capable of big scoring nights. You add in Kwame, JMAX, Amir, and Afflalo, for their defense, actually playing all these last three significant minutes - and maybe even Bynum though I can't see where the minutes would come from - and we can beat Boston even with Garnett.

    Notice, Herrmann is not mentioned in that last paragraph. He has no business playing for us.

    In short, we have a roster that can win it all. Talking about replacing any of our players right now is based on what? That we can't win with what we got? We have. And we can.
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Lee, the bottom line last night was that Dyess the C did the best job by far against Bosh the PF on D. I don't know why that's so hard to admit because whoever did the next best job was not close to equaling Dyess' performance.
  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Ernie, I have watched the game twice now. I suggest you rewatch it, and concentrate real hard during the 1st and 3rd quarters when JMAX played smothering defense on Bosh. Dyess did not come even close to this level of defense on Bosh.

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