At Toronto Raptors March 13th, 7:00 PM

Discussion in 'March 2009' started by Dlev59, Mar 8, 2009.

  1. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Walter Herrmann really spreads the floor.
     
  2. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Hermann scoreboard tracking for those who care :playball:

    1st half; entered at 2:47; 5 pt lead/exited at 8:56 in the 2nd; down 3

    enters at 1:06; makes three/ +3 points - Score impact; -5

    Overall Stat impact; 1-1, 0-0-0

    "Intangible" impact; -9

    Highlight play; his one three pointer

    2nd half; Curry spares us, but still overplays Dyess and benches Amir. We go small. Curry is trying to be funny.

    OT. A win is a win ? Bosh is unimpressive even with a very favorable match-up IMO. So are we. And so is Rip's shooting % and shot selection. His assists however are not. Curry is not a good coach. Dyess played almost 48 min after playing an insane amount against the Knicks. Amir needs to be traded or needs to play. The Pistons org needs to pick one and run with it.

    I'm not sure if asking Rip to play SG and PG is the right thing (Sheed being out minimizes it's effectiveness), but Stuck needs all the practice he can get unless Stuckey as a PG has been scrapped. We could also benefit from a coach that can help Stuck defensively. He needs it. And it also wouldn't kill anyone to give Stuck a chance down the stretch.

    Oh and AA and his clutch say hi :wave:

    We miss Sheed tremendously esp since the on person who can have an even comparable effect is on the bench. <and Bosh is scared of him>

    And can someone please teach Max how to BOX OUT?
     
  3. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Was Sheed sitting on the bench tonight?
     
  4. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I don't know. I didn't see him and he usually makes himself visible.
     
  5. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Another nail biter, but the "favored" team wins and goes to 6-2 without AI and still can win 50 games if they finish the season 17-1 :nerner:

    Rip almost another triple double with 24 points, 16 assists and 6 turnovers.

    Dice another double-double 16 pts 13 boards...but once again 45 mins (including OT) and he had a goal tend miscue and a fumbled a pass from Stuckey with about 25 seconds left in OT...

    Afflolo hits two 3's with one coming near the end OT to extend lead.

    Tay wakes up in OT with a wide open 3 and a long 2

    Stuckey played well hitting the key shot when needed, but left the distributing to Rip

    star of the game?? Max, hit his first 7 shots and then got the key game tying block and insurance bucket on the record breaking assist from rip..

    Pistons almost gave it away with 15 turnovers in the first half, but only 3 in the second.

    Rip got another tech..anybody know where he stands in the tech count?

    poor Raptors...I hope Bosh and Joe had a wink-wink agreement to save some dough for him in 2010. If Calderon is available, I would take him in 2009 ....
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    That is Rip's 6th tech I believe.
     
  7. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's what I'm saying. DET started a 6'5 PF and decrepit 6'9 C who according to some posters has a blinking neon sign above his head saying SCORE HERE and not one time did Bosh ever go into the post and call for the ball. He took about 35 shots and 28 of them were long jumpers. What am I missing regarding this guy? How is he the upgrade everyone yearns for?

    When DET went up 8 in OT the only question was how quickly they would give it back.
     
  8. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    First, I am sad at the passing of Mr. Davidson. He will be missed.

    Now the game. Now so important right now. But here is my report.

    First half, starters did fine, but Curry then butchered the rotations. Herrmann was one of the first subs in. Herrmann plays no D. In fact, with Toronto fast breaking, Herrmann can never even begin to catch up to things, find someone to cover, before Toronto is putting ball in the hoop. Curry wised up to this, brought in Afflalo. Great. Common sense at last. But will it last more than this game?

    Curry played much to much small ball in the first half. He went to it a bit in the 2nd half too, but only in fairly short spurts. In all, he coached a pretty good 2nd half.

    Back to Afflalo. Pretty darn good defender, but against Marion, not so great. The size advantage is a bit much there for Arron to overcome. Worse, Curry let them have this matchup in crunchtime and they burnt us. Hey, if you want Afflalo to play in this game for a defensive presence, play him for Rip or Stuckey. Anyhow, the fact we won, the fact Afflalo played pretty good D, probably does not matter to Curry. Afflalo did hit a few shots, including two triples - one very key one in the waning seconds of OT to put us up 5. Maybe Curry will remember that. Its a shame that a guy like Afflalo would have to even make one shot to earn playing time over a guy like Herrmann, but I will certaninly take it anyway. (If Curry actually has any sense and will keep playing Afflalo.)(And telling Dumars to dump Herrmann)

    Bynum played effectively enough to give Stuckey plenty of rest. Job done. He hit an outside shot.

    Stuckey was played off of a lot, and he continually nailed his jumpers. Yes, it seemed odd that Stuckey passed the ball to Dyess when it seemed it was his shot to make there in crunch time. Still, when we first got Rip, Rip absolutely did no crunch time scoring. Just had to accept the team leading scoring he provided and let someone else do the work in crunch time. So far, Stuckey has not at all showed the discrepency here that Rip had once upon a time. Still worth tracking for the fun of it going forward this season.

    Rip was a mixed bag. A ton of assists. Career high. 16 I believe. Made 21 points, on 22 shots. Poor shooting night, but yet with the free throws he got about a point a shot - which is not great but is acceptable for a volume scorer. But then he had a bunch of turns too. 7 or 8. So so game, or great game if you consider being involved in about half of your team's scoring something special.

    Dyess had another fine rebounding and shooting game. Of course, we won this one. Dyess still played too many minutes - but at least he did not play the first five minutes of the 4th quarter. Yes indeed, he looked quite fresh coming off that breather, nailing two shots right there. Dyess did ok defensively on Bosh and had a key defensive stop on Marion. I am not saying he did great defensively, just ok.

    JMAX was 8 of 9. His only miss was an 18 footer from above the free throw line. He hit a 15 footer from the right, and a short jumper from the left. Otherwise, all dunks. He played some tenacious D on Bosh at times.

    Amir did not play. Sheed is still injured. Game to game last I read. A stained calf.

    No update that I heard on when AI is returning. I see someone posted an article about a friend giving his opinion that AI does not like it here. Just an opinion. I bet AI would like it fine here if we won a championship. Everyone stay focused.

    Tay shot poorly but had several assists. And he made some shots in crunch time.

    Still, of great concern - no backup small forward for Tay against bigger small forwards. Herrmann can't play any defense at all. Afflalo is often to short, and Rip is often too light. We just about have to try Amir there at that spot. Otherwise, we are just going to continue to overplay Tay, and he will be wiped out by time the playoffs roll around. Which is very, very soon at this point.

    We jumped out the gate in OT, 8-0, and held on, barely.

    If you look at the plus minus of this game - you see that we were heavily plus with our starters. Our starters featured a point guard, one with some height. A shooting guard, one with some height. A small forward, one with some height. A power forward, one with immense strength and a whole lot of quickness. And a center, one who is really good at rebounding the ball.

    Our starting unit featured four scorers, five if you include JMAX, who was after all leading us in scoring thru the first 3 quarters. Defense? Rip. Ok. Stuckey. Ok. Tay. Fine. JMAX. Excellent. Dyess, OK. A pretty well balanced unit in all.

    The trick - Curry needs to use this model for as much of each game as he can manage. Sorry, this means playing Amir. This also means playing Kwame some.

    As we approach the playoffs, how is Curry doing getting the roster ready? Not nearly as good as he could be doing. However, I have seen other coaches do worse in that department. If Curry starts playing Amir regularly, and Afflalo, while continuing to play Kwame, he could end up having a halfway prepared roster at least. And if he actually plays these guys in the first round, we could get some momentum built up for the later rounds. Well, its up to Curry now.
     
  9. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yep I checked, your are correct my friend:bow1: Just seems like more...Does lead the team in turnovers or offensive fouls? :)
     
  10. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I'm with you. From what i've seen he barely operates in the post and he doesn't have a really strong post game to begin with. My major problem with him doesn't really lie in his game (although his defense does bother me) as much as the fact that he tends to choke under pressure. I've seen Sheed easily take him out of the game mentally and i really don't want to that trait in a max or "franchise" player.
     
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    [​IMG]
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I don't understand the question my friend!
     
  13. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Dwight does have the same problem; although he's shown signs of getting over it and has started taking it to Sheed. But to me it's not a comparable example. Dwight Howard is a physical beast. His body alone allows him to be more effective than Bosh while having absolutely no moves other than the "dunk" and the "spin" and regardless of his mental problems. Dwight is also far ahead defensively. He's like KG in a way that even though he chokes, the defense is always there. His upside warrants the risk. With Bosh, how much better can he really get?
     
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    It's not just Sheed, KG & Duncan regularly beat up on him. Dyess laid a pretty good one on him tonight.

    Sheed laid a beating on him right after the "trade" this year that just shouldn't happen at their respective ages. I shudder to think what those guys would do to Bosh when they were his age.
     
  15. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    But at least Howard's inside game would satisfy the, 'got to get in the post and quit being lazy!' people.

    Bosh takes more outside shots than Sheed for less points and Sheed is universally loathed. Is it merely the calendar, how the box score reads in the morning?
     
  16. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Sorry what I meant does Rip lead the team in offensive fouls or turnovers?

    16 TO's in the last three games...offset by the 35 assists is not bad I guess, but that is what happens when you are handling the ball as much as he is.

    I checked and for the season the turnovers are as follows including tonight
    Stuckey > 138
    AI > 130 with Pistons (140 total)
    Rip > 108
     
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We were missing 3 players who have started 121 games for us this year, who get paid $39 Million, we were on the road coming off of a tough overtime loss, and our owner passed away. But we pulled one out that would have made Bill D. proud.

    Crazy game. For everything frustrating the Pistons did, they did 1.1 other things great. Rip was the perfect embodiment of that. If he would have happened to be hitting his outside shot, this would have been an enormous game for him and we would have won easily. Still, he's so active offensively lately that he's drawing the defense towards him and he's been smart to pass out of it about 25 times per game. A pattern is developing that I'm not too fond of though... that is when Rip comes to the top and gets the ball possession after possession. He's not a PG and he's going to cough up the ball a lot if you ask him to initiate every possession. Also, Stuckey is very valuable when the other team thinks he might drive, not when he's curling on the baseline.

    Very efficient game from Maxiell. Doesn't have to do anything special, just look for the ball around the rim and play tough defense. Tonight was a good match-up for him physically compared to some nights. He's been dunking the bejezus out of the ball lately. Very fun to watch. They feel like they're worth double when he does that.

    Stuckey? Hitting more outside shots, which seems to be the difference on whether he has a good game or not.

    Would have been a real bummer if we would have ended up blowing another lead after last game. Very good for the psyche of the team that they came away with this one.
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I really don't want to get into a debate with you, but your comment was just so obviously open ended, I couldn't let it go.

    First the standard was choking, and Sheed locking him down. Well, DHo fits that to the T. In fact, Bosh plays a more normal game against Sheed compared to how much DHo is absolutely taken out of his game.

    Then, you indicate that DHo plays defense. Well, DHo plays center and usually has the easiest matchup on defense every night. Kendrick Perkins and Big Z aren't exactly NBA legends of the game. Certainly a far cry from Patrick Ewing and Brad Daugherty.

    I dunno. He shoots 49% from the floor as a big man jumpshooter, nearly 80% from the stripe, he puts up 22 + 9, and he's a capable screen and roll or pick and pop player. Dwight operates in a phone booth, which is why he is so easy to defend if you can stand your ground against him.

    People cry about Amir Johnson not getting playing time, and then saying they can't see what is so special about Chris Bosh. Which makes sense, because at one time, there were people who told me that Darko would prove it was a mistake to take LBJ at #1 overall.

    Is Bosh a superb defender? hell no. Neither is Lamarcus Aldridge. I would trade Max, Kwame and Amir, maybe AA too for either of those guys. 20+10 big men don't grow on trees.

    Bosh / DHo / Sheed and McDyess this year

    Player Comparison Finder - Basketball-Reference.com

    Bosh / McDyess / Sheed @ Age 24

    Player Comparison Finder - Basketball-Reference.com

    You're comparing cagey veteran big men with more than 10 seasons in the league, to a guy at the beginning of his career. It's like asking if 34 year old Rasheed could shut down 24 year old Dice, or if 33 year old Dice could shut down himself at age 24 (based on the Nuggets 18-34 strike season, I would take a chance on YES).

    Bottom line, it's not mental toughness. Sheed and Dice are still in the game because they know how to play, and have built up a ton of experience on multiple teams, under multiple coaches. Mutumbo and Dale Davis didn't play as late into their careers because they had a nice FT %.

    If we're going to pay Amir $3 million a year, Max $5 million a year, and Kwame $4 million a year, or even entertaining Carlos the rat Boozer, then I cannot fathom how Bosh is overrated.

    Man, you'd think Buddhatrain was Bruce Bowen with this crowd...
     
  19. max

    max All-Star

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    Bosh is not going to single handedly turn the franchise around but he would be a great pickup if we could get him. A guy who can avg 20/10 - I don't know. Think you have to go for it.

    Great win and hopefully Davidson got to see the end of it. Looking like a mirror image of the Knick game but Curry ran things better and the team was extra inspired to start OT. You could tell that they were not going to let another slip away.

    Game note - Afflalo is a better 3-pt shooter than Herman.
     
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'll take any big name big man.

    The Raptors do play better defense, hold their opponent to a lower eFG%, and rebound better without Bosh on the floor, but their scoring suffers dramatically.

    Bosh is an offensive weapon and a PF, which probably explains this effect a bit. Toronto has him playing twice as much at the C as at the PF, mainly because they have no other options. O'Neal didn't work out so great and Bargnani is Sheed minus all defensive desire and ability.

    When Bosh plays PF, TOR gives up 98.4 pts/100poss.
    When Bosh plays C, TOR gives up 104.1 pts/100poss.

    6 points is a pretty big difference. If he had a real center next to him, I would think that he'd be much more effective.
     

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