Discussion in 'January 2008' started by max, Jan 10, 2008.
Welcome back ahb! :D I missed you.
@ adonis, you're 100% correct.
I'm not saying everything Pop does is great. I'm just far more disappointed in all the things our coach does wrong that i can't really nitpick Pop. Biased on my part probably, but it's easy to overlook flaws when you know the coach is a winner. Piston fans did that alot with LB too.
i'll have thoughts on the game later but check out the Yahoo recap:
'SAN ANTONIO (AP) -- Ben Wallace had 23 points and 15 rebounds and the Detroit Pistons bounced back from a loss the previous night to beat the San Antonio Spurs 90-80 on Thursday.'
ben wallace eh? woops
Sort of like when they were listing both "R. Murray" and "F. Murray" next to each other in the box score for the same game? LOL.
Hahaha, I remember that. That was great! I guess Flip Jr thought that cloning himself would get him out of Sr's doghouse.
We won the game, but what did we gain toward playoff preparation:
1) Hunter got some playing time. Never hurts to have one of your backups get a little burn to keep the rust off.
2)Tay played some shooting guard. Never hurts to go big at guard on occasion.
3)Jason Maxiell continues to gain valuable experience.
Now, on the negative side. No Amir. No Afflalo. Stuckey only played 7 minutes. Still no sign of Samb. A good game from Herrmann was rewarded with nothing.
In all, we won the game, but took as many steps back as forward as far as getting ready for the playoffs.
Now some details from the game. SA started out a bit ahead of us, but we went on a 16-0 run and ended up ahead 30-15 after one quarter. This tied the lowest output by the Spurs in a first quarter this season. THats some good D. And the Pistons were concentrating on a lot of inside shots. Tay ended up with a nice first half scoring, while Sheed, Billups, and Rip were all making shots too. Dyess? A lot of foul trouble. A few made jumpers.
Hayes just hit one shot, but in this game we did not have to worry about a small forward being too quick for Hayes. SA plays a defensive specialist at the position.
JMAX was the only other sub in the first half besides Stuckey and Hayes. He did not do much in this game.
The foul trouble on Dyess meant Sheed guarded Duncan pretty much the whole 3rd quarter. The result was simple. Sheed could not afford to foul, so Duncan was free to score pretty much all he wanted. SA got back into the game because of this. (Because of our lack of depth at the 4 / 5.)
Parker and Ginobili were held to nonfactors in this game. Good D. But look, SA stayed with us despite two of their stars doing so little. All SA has to do next game is press the issue a bit more as far as attacking Sheed, and we won't have a thing prepared for foul trouble on both Sheed and Dyess at the same time. Pop knows this full well, and is hardly worried about this loss.
We did not score a bucket to open the 4th quarter with Rip and Hunter in the backcourt. We did go on a run though when Billups returned, and Hunter still in the game. Hunter played good D, and made a couple of shots.
They say Hunter was activated due to Stuckey tweaking his hand last game. Stuckey is also playing with a tweaked ankle.
Always like to see a win. But, hey, always like to see something done toward making the team better, and this did not happen tonight. Lets all hope the process starts soon.
This was a good win. Sheed, Tay and Rip put the hurt on SA early. Hunter came in the the 4th and sealed it with defense. That is the way Hunter should be used. For a quick 4 minute spurt in either half in the big games.
They upped their defense and got into us in the second half so can't conclude too much but we can say that we are there at the top.
Yes, Lee, as I pointed out this summer, we are very susceptible to Sheed getting in foul trouble. We are short a big in the rotation.
I still want Maxiel in earlier. He needs time playing with the starters and the starters need to find him. Maxiel is the answer to the old scoring droughts. Notice SA also chose to DOUBLE TEAM him. He needs the experience. I noticed someone flying out to Duncan at about the 3 minute mark left in the fourth quarter over on the left side causing Duncan to miss. Was it Dyss? No, he would never get there. It was Maxiel. That doesn't show up in the box score. A big play--very Ben like.
Nice win against the defending champs. Flippy rode the starters HARD, obviously hot under the collar and he did not want to lose a third straight game. I don't mind the minutes since the starters didn't play much after being blown out, and they were playing a great team. It just wasn't encouraging to see same old Flip go with the same old strategies time and time again.
Amir won't be in the rotation this year. He was on the inactive list in favor of Brezec after all. I know Joe said he would play, but as far as I can tell, that won't happen this year; probably not the next either. Stuckey was hurting, so he didn't play well and Flippy rightfully went to Lindsey instead. No Afflalo. First DNP-CD for him in a while; not that he's gotten much minutes since Stuckey's come back, though. He's proven he can play in big games (as evidenced by his 4th Q play against Boston in December), probably better than Stuckey can. With Stuckey hurt again, we might see him get more time. Max played badly. His height disadvantage really hurt him against SA's 6'11 and up frontcourt.
Sheed was a beast, 23 and 15 in 40 minutes and mostly keeping Tim in check but for that 3rd Q. I wish he'd play like that more often. Tayshaun found his pair for the first half at least, helping the Pistons build a 15-point 1st Q lead, netting 17 for the game. Rip and Chauncey were solid; all the starters outside of Dice, who was in foul trouble all night, were. All in all, a good win. Not a perfect game, but you can't really play a perfect game against a good defensive team like this. I still worry about Flip's inability to think outside the box though (sorry, couldn't help it).
I loved seeing Maxey take a swipe at Bowen after he fouled Rip. He is bringing some attitude and serves as what passes for an enforcer in 2008.
The Flip Saunders era has left me like an abused spouse, sitting there flinching in the corner even in the good times. They're playing well but then you look a little closer and swear they're doubling Jacque Vaughn. I always get the feeling that SA plays DET at about 75% of capacity while Flip is showing every trick he has.
If Tay's J is falling I don't see DET losing. He was way more agressive tonight even when missing.
Nothing like seeing 3 Spurs about to check in and no Piston within a mile of the scorers table. God bless the national broadcasts with the long timeouts.
DET scored 13 points in the 3rd!
Anyone else notice SA trapping the moment Stuckey checked in @ PG?
Maxiel looked bad at times but that is because he is getting the ball in places that he is not used to while playing with the first unit.
What was important is that SA like Dallas chose to Double him. How many players do we have that have been doubled by teams lately?
And, as I pointed out, when we needed the help defense late in the game it was Maxiel flying out on the side at Duncan. Dice can't do that. Maxiel is the key to our playoff success at present.
I think you are trying too hard.
Oh, I don't know, I think we have such a needy group, that it might play for them to get on over to the Spur's section and commensurate with Pop.
I especially liked his perceptive comments and forceful personality when he had his group together over on the side line.
Think Flip out-coached Pop?...nah. And Hunter, quit chewing on Parker's shorts...act your age!
trying too hard to . . . ?
Popovich doesn't play man-to-man defense as a default. He loves to trap players, especially along the baseline, and especially the ones who can't read doubles and pass out of them effectively (that's why Tayshaun normally sucks against the Spurs, and why Flip decided to play him at guard).
Speaking of Tayshaun,
At least he challenged this one.
A good win to break the losing streak. The team finally showed what they could do if they put their mind into it. Why Sheed and Tay can't play like that at least 75% of the time? Tay was aggressive early scoring in a variety of ways. Sheed was in the post quite a bit asking for a ball.
When they are on like that Pistons are hard to beat. But I have to nitpick a bit. Starters played too many minutes. It was obvious in the 3rd when they started settling for long jumpers that weren't falling. The team only scored 13 points in the 3rd. They did, however, play good on D and Spurs' shots weren't falling, so Pistons kept a decent size lead which was diminished in the quarter.
I agree D4E, some people are never happy. This was a great win. Our defense looked really good, we were quick, guys were helping cover... Parker hardly got in the lane until it was pretty much over. Ginobili didn't get to do many of his stupid ridiculous flip shots in traffic. The fact we were clogging the paint burnt us a couple of times with Udoka being left open for 3's, but if they can beat us nailing 3's they can have it.
Rip torched Bowen constantly. I thought this was a good psychological game for Rip because Bowen couldn't stop him.
Sheed was taking 3's from 5 feet outside the line for some reason but his work inside was a thing of beauty. McDyess played some good D on Duncan before those 2 quick fouls.
We were on the road in one of the hardest arenas to win in, I'll take a win any which way. Flip decided from the get go that he was going to ride the starters to try and pull out a win. I didn't mind this decision. Flip desperately wanted a win against a good ball club. They sucked it up in Dallas so the guys deserved the chance to redeem themselves. Yeah, there's always the other side of the coin - the bench should get the chance to play against the strong competition for experience but Flip made his decision, stuck with it, and we got the win. Give him some credit every now and then.
Lindsey was the difference maker in the 4th. Solid showing from him and a smart decision from Flip to go with him. Jarvis made some smart plays late in the 4th. I was expecting him to probably jack 3's on a couple of those possessions and was pleasantly surprised when he showed the composure to make a couple of nice assists to Sheed.
I love seeing Duncan lose.
Just beat the World Champs on their home court where they were 17-2!
Every so often we are going to see games where the starters play. They were playing so well last night that I don't have a problem with them playing extended mins. Every night is not going to be development night. 90% of the time it will be but we are going to get some games where they are just trying to win. This game in particular I think the starters wanted to redeem themselfs from the past 2 loses and were willing to take on that responsibility.
If they would have lost everyone would be saying how they can't beat a good team.
Any win against SA is a good one - as others have pointed out, they are the world champs and playing at home. I'm o.k. with the minutes played - the starters had some making up to do after the last two, and didn't play all that much the night before (might argue didn't play at all).
- Sheed was pretty amazing on both ends. Team defense overall was pretty good - forced lots of turnovers by being in the right place on drives.
- Hunter put in a couple of good minutes and kept the defensive pace up when things were lagging.
- I liked Tay playing the two spot though maybe a couple of Fabio minutes then would have been an upgrade over Hayes during that time. Hayes needs to be a higher option on offense when he's over the floor or he doesn't get much done. He doesn't blend in well with the starters.
- Pretty forgettable night from Max - more turnovers than boards, 25% shooting. He's looking frustrated and bad. He had a decent game against Boston, but has yet to show up in Texas.
Good game overall, but why not bring in one or two bench guys during the 3rd quarter? The starters seemed to have lost interest in the game - at least that's what the offense looked like to me, what with all the jumpers. There were at least 3 desperation Js tossed up to beat the shot clock.
With a double-digit lead, why not bring in AA in a game like this? You don't lose anything defensively and you get a player who doesn't need the ball on offense. It would be nice to get him some experience guarding slashers like Parker and Ginobili.
Anybody else notice how ticked Dice looked when he saw Max was coming in for him after he picked up that 5th foul with about 4 mins to go in the game? Fast forward a couple minutes later and he's back in to pick up his 6th foul! This was very near the same point where Pop raised the white flag and brought in the bench. I was thinking this may be an indication of what Flip has to deal with in limiting the starters' minutes.
Dyess definitely didn't want to come out. I've never really understood that substitution. There are four minutes to go, you've got a guy, who given the way he's been fouling all game, is fairly likely to pick up the sixth, and the game is tight and you want him on the floor.
Why not leave him in? The worse than can happen is that he picks up the foul on the rebound of the free throws and is out anyway. Best case maybe he plays it out. By substituting you just throw off any rhythm he might have and bring a guy in who knows he's only going to get about a minute to play.
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