At Orlando Magic Feb. 27th, 7:00 PM

Discussion in 'February 2009' started by Dlev59, Feb 21, 2009.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    After watching most of tonight's game, I missed a lot of the 4th.

    I'm a little less than impressed that this team basically held everything hostage by playing with a half-assed effort to get Rip back into the starting lineup.

    Now I know what is wrong with Joe. He has Stockholm Syndrome.

    Happy to have the win. Shame we didn't bring that sort of effort against Cleveland last week.
     
  2. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    So what happens if AI see exactly what you see? I can't see this ending well if he does. I don't know how it can. Well it could end well for the Pistons but without AI.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm really not sure Ill. The Pistons as constituted are still nowhere near Boston's league. Just because we beat up on our favorite red headed stepchild tonight, doesn't mean a lot. I always expect us to beat Orlando. I think they are overrated. They took 19 3s for crissakes.

    19 threes at home, in a tight game. It's a formula for failure.

    But I digress...

    Stuckey is not Billups, and we're not better without AI, any more than we were better without Rip during the win streak. We need as much talent on the floor as possible to make some noise.

    Joe has flashed his hand by trading CB, then making no moves at the deadline besides granting Alex Acker a chance to have a career.

    I think we wait this out, and AI might get a raw deal. I mean, as raw a deal as not having to play and still getting paid millions is. In the scheme of things, it's really hard to cry over that.

    Right now, the team has played well in the last two, and won the last one. It looks like AI doesn't have much to stand on if he wants to protest anything. The guys on the team simply do not have his back.

    I always worried about this, when Ben left, he stayed in touch with these guys, just as Billups does. I don't think Joe's guys are as loyal to him as they are to each other, which gives the impression that the inmates are running the asylum, and probably have for several seasons.

    I wouldn't dream of making this critique, but Tay and Sheed have been visibly dogging it for a couple weeks now.
     
  4. illadelph dynamite

    illadelph dynamite First Round Draft Pick

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    Yeah, it seems he is in a corner (come off the bench or make waves and look bad), but for real how can you play hard for teammates who you feel have committed mutiny?

    Hamilton justifies Pistons' move | detnews.com | The Detroit News

    more on that lpgrl quote it sounds even worse here.

     
  5. The Palace Artest

    The Palace Artest First Round Draft Pick

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    At first, I thought that maybe Iverson out of the SL is actually good for the Pistons.

    On second thought, doubts about the character of this team start to creep in. If it's true that we start pulling off a string good wins against good teams like ORL because our guys will actually be trying now, and that they wanna send a message to AI, then I will think that they are pieces of crap.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The doubts have always been there for me. We have been talented enough to go to the Finals, it's the commitment and work ethic of these guys that is the question.

    You gotta remember, these are people just like us. They get scared, act petty, get frustrated, angry just like us. I'd hazard a guess some of them are even more emotional than us, because they live in a world much removed from the day to day reality of gassing up the car, taking the kids to school, mowing the lawn etc.
     
  7. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    I just think that having 3 "go to" type scorers in the backcourt is too many. Too much Rip and AI takes away from Rodney's game, and it seems as Rodney goes, so go the Pistons. So, in that sense, we are better without AI. Talent is all well and good, but if the talent doesn't fit together, it doesn't matter.

    For example, tonight Rodney started the game out very poorly. Something like 0-for-4. The last couple weeks, he would not have gotten the ball back to do what he did the rest of the game. Having 2 guys dominating the ball has a way of icing out the rest of the team. Unless your name is Iverson or Hamilton, there is no "working your way into the game".

    I don't believe players on this team are "Dogging it" to make Iverson look bad. I really haven't seen any less effort than in the past. I just think the frustration can mount, and it's taking players out of their games.
     
  8. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Well they have looked decent the last two games and after grabbing the lead in the third, manager to hold on, extend it and execute all the way to the end. It is only one game so to early get excited other than the relief that the predicted double digit losing streak is ended.

    With that being said, it still to early speculate, but if AI is still out on Tuesday and the Pistons are in the midst of a 3 game win streak, then we will have to question the decision made 17 games ago to bring Rip off the bench when many in this Piston community as well as most of the NBA BB media community thought that AI should be the one coming off the bench with the second unit.

    Lke I indicated we have to wait to see how this plays out, but we have to hope that the Pistons didn't waste to many games/losses with Rip coming off the bench.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I just want to reiterate (at no one in particular) that the only dog I have in this race, is team success. I don't care how we get there. I just want to get there. A starting lineup of Amir, Kwame, Walt, Bynum and Spellcheck is fine with me. Sleepy Floyd can play the 6th man.
     
  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Yes, do check the boxscore. Including the plus minus column. You will see that JMAX was plus 9 in those 20 minutes. And indeed, we won the game with JMAX in for most of the 3rd quarter.

    What happened? Luck. Sheed got into foul trouble, forcing Curry to go away from the Sheed / Dyess pairing. With a combination of JMAX / Dyess, and then JMAX / Kwame, we took control of the game.

    Meanwhile, you will note that Sheed was minus 5 for the game.

    Dyess was positive - but only because he played along side JMAX for much of that 3rd quarter.

    The unit of Stuckey, Rip, Tay, JMAX (Dyess then Kwame) won the game for us.

    The Pistons have the players to pretty much maintain this unit all the time - once AI gets back.

    They should always play:

    A point guard (AI or Stuckey), a shooting gaurd (Rip or Afflalo), a small forward (Tay or ? - only hole in the rotation really - but we can get by.), a power forward (JMAX or Amir), and a center (Sheed, Dyess, or Kwame.)

    The Pistons have a uniquely talented roster. Tons of scoring. Lots of good defenders. We just have one glaring weakness - a coach who does not understand what wins - and what loses - games for him.

    Why all the losses? Curry keeps pairing Sheed and Dyess, and they, as a duo, keep playing losing basketball. Somebody please clue Curry in. You can't play two centers and expect them to be able to cover the area around the basket. Just not enough quickness.
     
  11. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    WORD! Word. Word!


    Bunch of B.S.

    They won't win anything with this cast of spoiled petulant attitudes.

    Not easy to like this team. Not for me, anyhow.


    The cast off strategy finally backfired. :granade:
     
  12. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Everything's coming together for the Piston's.:)

    Blaha said the team had a spring in their step when they came out for warmups. Comments througout the game about how much better Stuckey played with the ball in his hands more...veiled opinions about how the loss of Iverson was helping the team.

    I can't figure out how we played so well with Hamilton out if this is the case.
     
  13. KP

    KP First Round Draft Pick

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    Didn't see the whole game. But we executed offensively down the stretch last night. And it looked like the same plan each possession.

    Stuckey looks to get into the lane, if he can't he gets the ball to
    Rasheed in the high post, who looks to get the ball to Rip
    Rip looks for a shot or draws an extra defender and passes to
    Dice (or Tay) for an open jumper

    It was classic Piston half court basketball - something we just don't see with consistent success with AI. I've thought all along that he's best suited to come off the bench and create offense with the faster paced and offensively challenged second unit.
     
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think part of DET's problems with Sheed is that they ask him to play both the PF and C and it takes him in 2 different directions conditioning-wise. KG does not play C. If you could assure Sheed that he'd be a PF he might be able to drop some weight which would help him out at this stage. This assumes he would take advantage of the opportunity also.

    The rest would be up to Curry to get the right players in at the right time. I don't think it is a bad thing to make teams guard you. If they started a slimmed Sheed and Kwame then Dyess becomes the back-up C with Max or Amir at the 4.
     
  15. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Don't know whether to feel good for the Pistons or bad for the Magic who must feel like this monkey is never coming off their back.

    I don't think of Stan as a particularly good coach, but his defense that met all guard penetration with a trap around the free throw line really hurt the Pistons. Eleven steals, all in that area coming off those doubles. Someone on the Orlando staff has been watching some film. It made Stuckey look like he ought to still be in college for most of the first half. But then either the Pistons adjusted or the Magic backed off, because the fourth quarter was played very differently. Orlando without Nelson is a better team.

    Loved that one Prince / Dyess pick and pop in the 4th. Tried it once and didn't get Dyess free. Prince proceeds to look at the clock, dribble back over to the starting point, and starts the whole play all over again, this time freeing Dyess for a jumper he made. Can't to that if you walk the ball up the floor and start the offense with 14 seconds left.

    It's only one in a row, but it was sure a nice one to get.
     
  16. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    If they cranked the heat in the arena last night he was going down.

    I think not having Rip or AI is better than having both. It messes the line-ups up too much to find minutes for both.

    Any chance they make AI wear a hat that says SALARY when he sits on the bench? Now that would be insulting.

    Roscoe, I think you are 100% wrong about the lack of effort thing. It just doesn't add up. You've accused Tay of dogging it, but then he played well in Miami. Why would he randomly decide to try all the sudden when nothing had changed? Did he remember the nice birthday party they threw for him down there in Flip's first year?
     
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It's tricky, and I may have added motive into my equation, instead of being perfectly objective. But my perception over the last many games is that Tay or Sheed were dogging it each night. Sometimes both.

    It's like Rip coming off the bench, producing like the greatest 6th man in NBA history, then suddenly the tap shut off, and he starts saying he can't be effective off the bench, when he just showed the contrary.

    The other night, Tay goes from the top of the key, drives left handed and finishes with an easy blow by layup. Dre remarks, "he can get that every game", which was exactly what was going through my mind. It was so quick, so effortless. The next day, all I could think was, why doesn't he get that every game? 3 times a game? Why the pump fakes, jab steps, pull up fadeaway jumpers (where he looks like a toy soldier with his rifle cocked)? Is he holding out?

    I dunno.
     
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Did the other conspirators forget to tell Sheed to quit dogging it?
     
  20. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I'll sit by you. I haven't been seeing an effort problem for awhile; just the wrong mix of players and a coach that could be on par with the coaching acumen of a 2 year old.

    The ball was moving last night so of course players are going to look more "involved". The players didn't look like they were trying harder; they just looked more comfortable.

    I don't see the big conspiracy theory. I think it's natural reaction to look better overall when the team is meshing. Whoever you're preference is we have one too many guards that play the same position, and it's not surprising we look better in a style that the team is more used to (suited to?) playing or without one of them.

    In the first half i didn't see a flood gate of "new" effort from anyone with the exception of Rip who looked a little bit like he had something to prove on his own. In the second half the play picked up, but it's likely you're going to see more "pep" when the team is executing and actually getting results (ie; a lead).

    To me it's simple, it's personnel.

    And while this win was impressive, i still see the lack of minutes for AA, Amir, and our frontcourt SL leading to losses in other games. This was a team we historically play well against and a fired up Rip.

    The team is not "sandbagging" it. And various players look exactly the same effort level with AI; it's the results that are the problem.

    Tay looks like he'll play with anybody at this point if it will just result in a win. And to quote Sheed; "It may not look like we care, but we do, and the losing is killing us" or something to that effect.

    I think blaming effort is taking the easy way out and has been for awhile. The team is not constructed properly and the coach is very inexpierenced. 99% of the problems IMO can be attributed to that and sucky rotations.
     

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