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At Orlando December 8th, 7:00 PM

Discussion in 'December 2006' started by TheeTFD, Dec 8, 2006.

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Call your shot

Poll closed Dec 9, 2006.
  1. 2 point game either way

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. Pistons walk over these pups

    9 vote(s)
    60.0%
  3. Magic too young and too Darkod-up [they shock the world]

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  4. Blame it on the Back to Back and travel

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  1. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Took the words out of my mouth. Anyone watching the game could see that Darko's man was missing shots versus Darko causing misses. Darko has had stellar defensive performances in the past, though. This just wasn't one of them. He was not impressive by any means. The Pistons didn't go inside because our guards were torching the imposing guards. Detroit took advantage of the mismatch. The real question to ask is why Darko wasn't able to gobble up more rebounds? During the time he was on the court, he was easily the biggest player on the floor and couldn't manage to pull more than 5 boards. He was outrebounded by Chauncey, Rip and Prince. Darko's inability to grab more boards when Howard was out of the game probably cost Orlando many potential possesions. The difference to be made in this game was not his handling of the bigs...who the Pistons didn't even really go to...but to dominate the boards when the Pistons went small. Or to dominate offensively with up against a smaller lineup. Being able to get away with putting Tay and Maxiel on Darko was a huge advantage for the Pistons and played a large part in the 4th quarter dominance. Knowing when to adjust your game to help the team is a skill great players learn. He isn't there now and personally I don't think he ever will be.
     
  2. Ozarkruffrider

    Ozarkruffrider First Round Draft Pick

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    Should be interesting to note that when I heard two different interviews on Sirius' NBA radio from the Orlando organization, (Pat Williams / VP as well as their radio color analyst) they hardly mentioned him. It was all about Howard and the other young guys coming on and Grant Hill. Arroyo got some love, but I think Darko's name got mentioned once as part of the trade.

    Looks like Darko will be the typical bench player.
     
  3. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Nice post
     
  4. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    darko was as bad as i remembered.

    but NO ONE has mentioned the most important stat of the entire game: maxiell got his first assist of the year! wooooot
     
  5. max

    max All-Star

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    At any rate. I think Magic showed us that they are not going to vanish anytime soon. What impressed me is their constant push to take the ball inside and improve the shot. Guards trying to penetrate and Howard always there ready for the pass. Fall asleep on defense and the Magic will take advantage.

    They will continue to improve their young core and should get better as the season continues. Howard, Nelson, Ariza, Bogans, their rookie Redick, and of course Darko. Most teams improve as the season advances so we will see if they keep pace. Also crucial is the status of Grant Hill. He still has not made it for a full season over there.

    Then they get to enter the next stage of rebuilding which is trying to hand onto all the players they put so much hard work in developing. Especially if they end with a good record, generate a lot of interest in their players.

    Next Magic/Piston games are Feb 23 at Orlando and April 11 at home. Taking this 1st road game gave us home court for the 3 meetings. This could come into play for playoff seeding if the Magic keep up the pace.
     
  6. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    I agree Max.

    The key to this young team as you mentioned is the health of Grant Hill. His experience and veteran leadership is key to the success of the Magic.

    If he can play the full season and into the playoffs, with steady improvements from the youngsters, who knows what might happen.

    This is the Eastern Conference.............
     
  7. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    we just disagree. i think a hand in the face does cause players to miss. it isn't just coincidence that when darko's hand is up by most players that they miss. that's why players are taught to put a hand in the face.

    or you could say the pistons didn't go inside because it was easier to score against jameer than darko. you could dismiss it if it was only sheed that missed shots inside but it was mcdyess as well. i agree darko wasn't dominant defensively this game but he was definitely solid.

    i didn't see darko miss any rebounds that came to him. the ball bounces where it wants. i saw darko grab several strong rebounds.

    well if he hasn't learned it shouldn't his coach?? shouldn't his coach have pounded it inside repeatedly when flip went small ball?? or is it up to darko to bring the ball up the court and post himself up?? darko doesn't get the attempts to be offensively dominant. he gets 6 shots per game about.
     
  8. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    I agree, except I didn't see a hand in the face until well after the ball was released.

    Pistons scored on the guards when Darko was end and out of the game. And I agree it is much easier to score on Jameer than Darko. You completely missed my point about where Darko needed to contribute to get the win didn't you. I'm not surprised.

    Oh, I get it. Darko doesn't get rebounds because the ball doesn't like to bounce his way. That's creative. We'll just ignore the fact that he hasn't been an efficient rebounder all season if that makes you feel more comfortable. Perhaps he can ask Dwight Howard how he gets the ball to bounce near him. lol. Bballjay, you literally do have an excuse for everything. You're too far gone man. Too far gone.

    Nope, its up to Darko to get open and stop doing his impression of the stiff Indian dude from one flew over the coocoo's nest. When he did get the ball he couldn't even score on Maxiel or Tay..so why pass it to him?

    By the way, if Darko's good games always seem to be controversial, doesn't that tell you something?
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    You guys can argue this stuff all day, but it doesn't mean much because it is too small of a sample. Maybe the ball didn't bounce his way. Maybe Dice and Sheed were just cold while Darko was guarding them, etc. Since we are only talking 10 shots or so, it is not statistically significant. It could have been because of good defense or just plain missed shots. You have to look at the long term stats.

    These are "on" the floor stats per 100 possessions that show how many points the Magic give up on D when each of the following players are on the court.

    1) Ariza- 101.6
    2) Milicic- 102.4
    3) Turkoglu- 103.0
    4) DHoward- 103.3
    5) Arroyo- 103.4 (probably because he usually plays with #1 and #2)

    The top 5 for the Pistons are:
    1) Davis- 96.0 (although this is probably not stat sig. due to low mins).
    2) Rip- 107.6
    2) Delfino- 107.6 (tie w/ Rip)
    4) Sheed- 107.7
    5) Lindsay- 108.1
    5) Chauncey- 108.2 (virtual tie with Lindsay)


    Whatever the reason, Darko is helping on D. And it is not coming at the expense on offense for the Magic like it is for the Pistons and a player like Lindsay Hunter. The Magic score 105.7 per 100 possession with Darko out there. The Pistons only score 99 when Hunter is out there... 9 points worse than they allow!
     
  10. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Tashawn nobody is disputing that Darko is a good defender. My point was only that he did not play well against Detroit. His defense was not game changing and his offense was non-existent. Rebounding and points were needed by Darko to defeat the Pistons. He provided neither. If you think he had a good game as well then I will have a hard time taking you seriously going forward as it pertains to your takes on Darko.

    Oh yeah, he played most of the 4th quarter and he came in on the minus side with that effort. Darko averages 7.3 pts and 4.8 rebounds for the season. We've already established that per 48 mins there are many players who are better statistically. I will go out on a limb and say that no player in the history of the game has recieved so much praise for mediocre results. If you're a Magic fan, Darko should be your 6th favorite player on the team based on contribution. If you're a Pistons fan, Darko should probably be somewhere between 6000 and 6 million.
     
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    No, I agree. My point is just that you can't judge his D by how well or poorly his opponent happened to shoot 1 game. Just because Zach Randolph went to town while Sheed was guarding him, doesn't mean that Sheed is not a good defender. We've all seen Ben get dominated from time to time. There are some very talented and streaky players in the NBA.

    I think most of Darko's defensive effectiveness stems from his size and quickness advantage. Just being a 7'1" player on the floor with an ounce of athleticism changes available options for the other team. His main problem is staying on the floor so that he can press that advantage more often.

    Also, I wouldn't really pin that loss to the Pistons on Darko. They missed a ton of free throws, lost a starter to injury, Chauncey had his best game of the season... and it was still a very close game. This was one of the worst teams in the East through most of last year.
     
  12. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i disagree. orlando has been winning with darko not scoring a lot or rebounding or lot. i would say that that isn't his role on the team. his defense was game changing because orlando went on an instant run when darko came into the game. if you say he had a bad game then i have a hard time taking you seriously going forward.

    i would say in the history of the game there has been no player that has been so scrutinized without being given an oppurtunity. he hasn't even played a full season yet but he's expected to put up 20 and 10 or he's mediocre.

    jmax was out of our rotation doesn't mean he isn't an impact player in this league. if jmax gets 20 minutes a game for us somehow he would open up some eyes. it's all about oppurtunity. darko can make just about any team a contender that's why i like him.
     
  13. max

    max All-Star

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    Only way I can see if you are a Pistons fan supporting Darko is you are still trying to stick it to the Pistons for trading him, are also an Orlando Magic fan, or are related to Darko.

    Otherwise how can you not be wishing that he would have kept his but in Serbia for one more year. Darko said his experience here was a nightmere, it was not too fun for us fans either losing a #2 pick. Last #2 pick was Isiah Thomas.

    Reading these posts on Darko's defense is almost describing the way Michal Curry played. Curry was also known to have this invisible force that changed the game.
     
  14. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Bballjay, you are unable to look at this objectively because of your love for Darko. You've proven that it really doesn't matter what he does on the court you will interpret it is as an extraordinary performance. You've obviously found your soul mate. Congrats.
     
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Here is another player that went through a brutal learning curve and now seems to also possess that invisible force.

    Kwame Brown of the Los Angeles Lakers, On Court / Off Court stats from 82games.com

    He averages 9 points and 7 rebounds per game and leads his team in blocked shots. People said he had no bball IQ, fouled too much, bad attitude, poor hands, blah blah blah. It turned out, he just needed to figure it out for himself on the court.

    There is nobody on his team that is even close on a +, or - basis. And it isn't because he is lighting up the stat sheet.
     
  16. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    As a number 1 first round draft pick Kwame is STILL a tremendous bust. So I guess, I would say this is a great example. Thank you. I'm more convinced than ever that Darko was a poor selection. He will never come close to the players we passed on to get him. Anyone who thinks he is better than Bosh, Anthony, Wade, J. Howard, TJ Ford, Kirk Hinrich, Luke Ridnour, Chris Kaman, Boris Diaw or even Leandro Barbosa is seriously kidding themselves.
     
  17. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    depends on what you want. out of all of these players only 1 has a ring. from what i've seen darko is a winner and his teams just flat out win. if you are looking for a player that just puts up stats then maybe other players are better. darko is a 7' ak47 he can do it all.

    i think as a # 2 pick darko was a great pick. he's a great defensive big man and at the time the pistons hung thier hat on defense. his unselfish attitude about the game made him perfect for the pistons. defense wins championships and darko can definitely do that.

    he can shoot the 3, pass, handle the rock, defend the c, pf, and some sf players. small ball doesn't matter to him because he's quick enough. he just flat out has the skills you want whenever you want them. he's just inexperienced. he also isn't playing with an experienced pass first pg like diaw. he's only played with chuckers that only leave him the scraps. i think you are making your judgement too quickly because all of those players have had more oppurtunity than darko.
     
  18. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Darko's career is rather young so he's inconsistent and learning. That he has a positive effect on games is encouraging...if you discount the fact that he's not on our team anymore.
    If darko has IT, he'll show it next year. I wouldn't beat up on him this year. He was shelved for too long to make comparisons with his draftmates.
     
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    My friend, Darko *may* be able to shoot the 3, but he has yet to make one in his career. It's like saying that I can shoot the 3 (which at one time I could playing pickup ball), but I haven't hit one yet in the NBA. :)
     
  20. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Word on the street is that he can fly too.
     

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