At Oklahoma Thunder Jan. 16th 8:00 PM

Discussion in 'January 2009' started by roscoe36, Jan 11, 2009.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Mrs. Menace is a nice lady. Many of the guys on this forum have nice ladies who look after them when they get crazy.

    Oh, he'll make you mad. But if he reports it, it most likely happened.

    You're right. it won't matter. Because we replaced CB with AI, and AI is still getting CB's minutes at a different position. The problem is Curry's 5 best players constitute a small lineup, and Curry seems unable to play those guys less than 35 minutes per game each, which means most of the time, we will be watching small ball.

    We simply have 1 too many guards. You can't trade Stuckey, AI won't get us a fraction of CB back at this point, which leaves Rip. It's unpopular, people don't like it, but from a GM standpoint, Rip is your guy. The only big issues I can see are, does his contract extension mess with his tradability as far as some weird loophole.
  2. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    A trade restriction?
  3. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    It didn't seem to muck all of KGREG's scenarios yesterday. Ultimately it can't work, but they haven't even tried it where TG plays the 2 and back up 3 and AI plays the 2 and back up 1. It doesn't seem that difficult to play the 3 of them enough to get in a flow and get some minutes until the 4th roles around. That's where this thing falls apart unless they're small at the end.

    SB might work in the 2nd quarter when most teams go small. It might work to close games if they're not beaten down from 4 quarters of it. This is a joke. I guess we wait 'til the trade deadline, but who knows what damage will be done by then and if there will be enough time to did out.

    There was a play in the 3rd Q when AI drove baseline and went into the air when one of his passes to nowhere got picked off. Sheed just sunk his head in the corner.

    How many SB teams average 65 points a game? How many shoot 3 FT's? Deeeeetroit Basketball!
  4. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    "This whole thing came down to the way they beat us on the boards," coach Michael Curry said.

    I wonder why?:doh:
  5. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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  6. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Well, that was an awful game. When the Pistons look at their best, they're still only playing near the standard level of the past years.

    Ah, never mind...


    Durant is just Prince with a better attitude. No better skills, no better physical gifts, just a better attitude and more motivation.
  7. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    there are so many problems with small ball. we give up rebounds, both offensively and defensively. our players run out of gas in the 2nd half (notice everyone standing around on offense, reaching in on defense). we give other teams mismatches (how do you not put prince on durant?). we get injured. we miss free throws. guys like jmax don't get on the floor. the players are unhappy and play unhappy.

    it's time to eliminate small ball. if these 3 games weren't enough to prove that, then i have to seriously question curry.
  8. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    That seems to be the best idea with this current line-up. If we keep AI/Rip around 30-35 min a game, i'm trying to figure out how many minutes of SB that would necessarily have to be and how many minutes that leaves AI to play the point with AA which i think would be the ideal setup if he's at the 1.

    It's kinda ironic that these problems wouldn't be as pronounced with CB/Stuck b/c they could both play the 1/2 and at least hold their own with stronger players so cross-matching wouldn't be an issue. There still would probably be a level of SB though (although not as severe)
  9. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    PG stuckey 35 mins AI 13 mins
    SG AI 23 mins rip 25 mins
    SF Prince 36 mins rip 12 mins
    PF Amir 24 mins Max 24 mins
    C Sheed 24 min Mcdyss 24 mins

    If we asume that Stuckey AI and Rip are all going to get there 35 mins a game, I just don't see how we can get away from small ball Unless AA is totally out of the rotation. and Even then we are still sorta smallish for the 12 mins a game that Prince is off the court.

    The only way to get everybody the mins they need is for one of our SG's to either be hurt long term or to be traded.... from our 7 game win streak.... (and i'll even go by the arguement they could have done the same thing with Rip Playing and AI hurt) we see that were better off with less scoring talent on the court.

    We probably would be better off this season trading a SG for a rack of balls....
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Uhm, we traded Chauncey so Stuckey could start (another myth, from when AI starting was not working out). But we didn't remove CB's minutes from the equation, we just gave them to AI.

    If all 5 of the starters only play 35 minutes, there is no way to distribute them to get more than 26 minutes of big ball. And that presumes playing 4 to start, 35 straight minutes, and then the 5th guy comes in for the big baller at the 13th minute.

    (This is sorta rough, I literally sketched it on a napkin, so checking by others would be appreciated).

    It doesn't mattter who starts, who finishes or whatever. You have too many guys playing too many minutes and they simply do not create big lineups when they are all on the court.

    Someone has to go, or minutes have to be dramatically cut to get a big ball lineup out there for enough of the game to allow us a chance to win on the boards and on defense. With AA able to perform at a decent level, we have a surplus of shooting guard talent. I think you have to keep AI because you probably wont get value for him in trade, his expiring deal is nicer than Gabrielle Union, he's able to play the 1, and he's just flat out better than Rip.

    EDIT: round has it all figured out above ^^^. Cheers.
  11. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    What about this;

    PG- Stuck 35/AI 13
    SG- AI 20/Rip/20/AA 8
    SF - Tay 35/Rip10/AA 3
    PF - Amir/Max/Dice
    C - Sheed/KB/Dice

    NVM that works about the same as your rotation just with AA (12 or so minutes of smallish ball (which all things considered is not horrible and much better since it's 2 bigs and a 3 guard set rather than Tay/big/3 guards). It would equate to about two 6 min stretches in both halves if divided evenly adjusted on the team we're playing and how it's working. And if AI's time at PG coincided with AA's time at SG as much as possible and then Stuck on the floor most of Rip's minutes and the rest of AI's.

    This is just for my own comparison purposes. I know it's a pointless rotation now

    PG CB 30/Stuck 18
    SG Rip 30/Stuck 18
    SF Tay 35/AA 13
    PF Amir/Max/Dice
    C Sheed/KB/Dice

    If we try that rotation with AI

    PG Stuck 30/AI 18
    SG Rip 30/AI 18 or vice versa (who starts doesn't matter)
    SF Tay 35/AA 13
    PF Amir/Max/Dice
    C Sheed/KB/Dice

    Can we get away with AI playing 18 min at PG and and alot of those with Rip?

    I despise not having 2 bigs on the floor, but i don't think that the 3 guard set with 2 bigs is nearly as bad.
  12. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Was thinking about this last night. The reason that AI needs to go to the bench is not because of Rip but because of Stuckey. AI needs to have the ball in his hands to be effective. Rip needs someone to feed him the ball. The reason we were winning when Rip was out is because we only played the style of ball that AI plays which is up and down and a little chaotic. Rip can't play that way.

    We have two options the way I see it 1) Start Rip and Stuck and let Stuck set Rip up for his buckets off of screens and let AI sub in for Stuck while AA subs for Rip. This takes advantage of the strengths of both AI and Rip. You could even play AI and Rip together but AI has to play PG and feed Rip. You can't put the three of them on the floor together because one of them will get left out. I repeat; AI, Stuck and Rip should never be on the flloor at the same time. This is killing us.

    Option 2) is to Start AI and Stuck and have Tay or Bynum play the point to feed Rip off his screens. The problem I see with this is it takes Tay out of position and gives him more minutes to play (when we need to reduce them) and I am not sold on Bynum. Rip cannot get his own shot. The other thing we can do with this option is try and trade Rip. I hate the idea but if we are not going to use the first option here; we will not be getting the most we can from both Rip and AI.

    They have both been playing successful basketball for too long to have either one of them to change their style of play and expect the same results. Making AI a jumpshooter has proven these last few games to be horrendous and so has asking Rip to be a creator for his teammates.
  13. HelloIDistance

    HelloIDistance First Round Draft Pick

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    Man this sucks. Getting blown out by the Thunder, really?

    Either:
    A. One of our guards needs to be traded (doubt it)
    B. One of our guards needs to understand that coming off the bench and being the sixth man will help the team (also doubt it)
    C. We have to accept the fact that it's a transition year and next year things will be better with a good draft pick and cash to spend (most likely)

    It sucks because this team has the talent. But AI, RIP, and Stuck don't work together. It's obvious there is a chemistry issue. It all comes to down to who will come off the bench, RIP or AI? It doesn't matter though because they both will not be happy coming off the bench. And if one of your "star" players is not happy, we aren't going anywhere this year. It will only bring down the team.

    It's been said before, small ball is really hurting the team. Not only in the wins/loss column, but also the players. Everyone is taking abuse from guarding much bigger and stronger players by playing out of position. Up until now the Pistons never had injuries like this. I understand they're not serious injuries, but these are caused because we are playing out of position.

    Has Curry lost his mind? He needs to man up and make a decision, and hopefully the players understand and buy in. I have my doubts though. We'll find out sooner or later.
  14. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    We might as well just ride it out. It's not like trading AI or Rip is going to win us a title. After this year we will have a cap space and no real ties to anyone besides Rip/Tay and Stuck/Amir/Max. If we trade Rip now unless it's going to get us an elite C/PF we're not going anywhere and then next year we have no starting SG.

    Does anyone think this team is a title contender ? Or that there is a trade that can make us better than the top teams ?

    It unfortunately just might be a rebuilding situation at this point.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    No.
    Disagree.
    Arron can start. His record as a starter is great. Plus with all the cap space, we can buy a starter.
    Yes.
    No.
  16. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Every year for the last few years, i've always thought that with a little tweaking and better coaching/rotations, they could beat win the title. This is the one year that i'm not so sure. I think they can handle whoever comes our of the West, but i'm not so sure they are on par with the top 2 teams in the East.
  17. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think the talent is there lpgrl..compare it to the talent we had in the Title year before the Sheed trade. We need a trade before the deadline. Rip is the one that should be traded.
  18. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Maybe not talent wise. But you know, heart and team cohesiveness can go a looooong way. We've seen that before.

    I too think Rip is the logical one to trade. I could be wrong, but it seems like he wants out. And we saw what happened when he was out of the mix. And we also saw what happened when he was in it.Was that correlation or causation? IMO he is poison to this team at this time. Barring injury, I also believe we are better off without him...although I think Joe D. can get a nice player that fits on THIS team at THIS time for Rip. Why not?

    As far as the coach is concerned, to me, the jury is still out on that one. But if you told me that I could switch him for Bill Laimbeer (not the bum on this forum...the other one), I would POUNCE on that one.

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