At New Orleans Hornets Feb. 25th, 8:00 PM

Discussion in 'February 2009' started by Dlev59, Feb 21, 2009.

  1. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    What would that buyout be, .60 cents?
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We should just cut all the guys who are in positive territory on the season (Amir and Sheed). They are potentially costing us a lottery pick.
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I mean get his muscles cut. Not cut him from the team.

    Cutting a player is almost never a good idea. Why would you fire someone and keep paying them?
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It did seem a little drastic.

    Darko got cut and it didn't seem to do much for him. He's just bigger and slower now.
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    No one complains DHo or KG or Ben Wallace are too slow.
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm not saying Darko is too slow, but at 7'1" and 250 lbs, he was 98th percentile on the Pistons agility tests, which is a pretty amazing feat. From a purely physical standpoint, that is pretty freakish. Amir has similar quickness, but isn't naturally as big.

    Sometimes quickness can be advantageous.

    Here he is using his quickness to bail out Sheed. He looks pretty cut there. Just not enough body fat yet. That probably won't build up until he is closer to 30.
    [​IMG]
  7. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    But he probably got called for the foul here.
  8. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    Amir needs to hit a GYM!!!!!

    Tay does too, but he always get worn out.
  9. Ryder

    Ryder First Round Draft Pick

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    Yeah , they should talk to Lebron on how to get bigger. :o
  10. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Or A-Rod. :skull:
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Don Reid was quite the athlete too. I would be working on my Rodman comparisons, not my Darko comparisons.

    It isn't enough to just be quick. Amir has athleticism out of the wazoo, but he reminds me of those track stars who go to the NFL. They end up being kick returners, if they are lucky, they get to be the 5th wideout.

    You have to be good at the game. Skill wise, I don't think Amir stands out. You also have to be strong and durable. In the paint, I don't think Amir can bang with the big guys. He needs to go like Tay, get a jumper and be a perimeter player, or he needs to beef up and compete with the Ben Wallaces and Tyrus Thomases of the world.
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Bosh and Amare are skinny.

    I just remember all of the talk about how Tayshaun had to bulk up. Remember that his body would never last in the NBA? It turns out he's the iron man.

    Guys aren't typically huge when they're 21. It takes years in the weight room + some natural body fat to put on the lbs.

    I'm sure he's working out as much as Kander tells him to.

    If he were cut I guess he'd be even further in the +/- lead. Maybe that would be enough to put us over .500, but I doubt it.
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Bosh and Amare are skilled offensive players. Amare is one inch taller, but 35 lbs heavier. At 21, Amare was a 20 + 9 player.

    Tay also ducks under Lebron James. I can also last if I don't use my superior post up skills and avoid physical defense by matching up on smaller perimeter shooters.

    I'm not trying to argue with you just to tick you off. I know you like the kid. But he's not all that he can be. I think he can be better, but he's not living up to it. Same criticism I have of Sheed. or JMax (you should hear me ream him in chat almost every game).

    I think he needs to personally develop if he wants to be a factor. He's too small to be a big time rebounder, and he's too unskilled to play on the perimeter. He needs to address that so he can have a long career, preferably in a Pistons uniform.
  14. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Weird thing for me, and more or less unrelated to your post - sorry, is that A'm'a'r'e and Bosh are the same or even heavier than most players maybe fifteen years ago. LBJ plays at more or less the same weight as Moses Malone. Kids get too much protein today I guess.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It's not so much that I like Amir, it's that I try to appreciate players that I think are helping us. I'm continually baffled that our most successful player on the court this year (measured by score), gets so little respect. I know I put a lot more into +/- than most others here, but if I'm going to value a guy, I'd prefer to do it by net results. I'm willing to adjust the data if I think it is skewed in any way, but so far nobody has put forth a theory that shows how this data is skewed. Amir has played against starters, he has played off the bench, he's been paired up with Kwame, Dyess, Sheed, and Maxiell, and he's had a few DNP's. His data is correlated very low with any other player.

    08-09
    Amir has the best on court +/-
    Sheed has the best on court/ off court +/-

    07-08
    Amir had the best on court +/-
    Chaucney had the best on/off.

    06-07
    Tay was #1 in both.
    Ben wallace was #2

    05-06
    Tay was #1 in both.
    Ben Wallace was #2

    04-05
    Rip had best on court
    Tay had best on/off

    03-04
    Sheed had the best, but he only served part of the season
    Ben Wallace and Chauncey were essentially tied behind him.

    02-03
    Corliss Williamson had the best on court +/-.
    Jon Barry had the best on/off.

    Man does 02-03 seem like a long time ago, eh?
  16. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    It's all about putting him in a position to succeed but he needs the playing time to adjust. Sometimes I think his D-League stint did more harm then good. He was able to get away with his athleticsm against those guys and the officiating was alot more lenient down there. He has more D-League floor time then NBA floor time so he still needs to make that adjustment. He is not big enough to bully people so we need someone on our coaching staff to work with the skills and attributes he has to make him a viable player for us in the NBA; not D-League.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    With all these shortcomings, shouldn't we get killed with him on the floor? You'd think he'd be down in the +/- basement with Maxiell.

    I can point out 10 flaws in Amir's game:
    He fouls way too much.
    He has no real fundamental post game.
    His jump shot is slow and with a low release.
    He doesn't box out well.
    He tries to get involved in plays that are bad gambles.
    He doesn't get to the free throw line enough.
    He leaves his feet too easily.
    He's not strong enough.
    He lets the refs walk all over him without a response.
    He doesn't seem to be vocal enough on defense.

    Yet, for some reason, the pros outweigh the cons. This is why I am excited about this guy. There are tons of leaks in his game and he still ends up as one of our most effective players. At least half of the flaws that I mention are coachable/ fixable and he's only 21. That means that we have 2 years to develop him into a monster before the team is back in contention at all.
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    That is probably one of the most insightful things I have seen written about Amir. Good call.

    I tried to imagine who Amir could be. He's not worm. He's not JMax. He's not Sheed. He's not Ben Wallace. He's not A'm;a;r;e, he's not Shaq.

    The closest I could come up with is Hakim Warrick, and even that is not a good fit.

    It is very rare for a player that light, to be that unskilled offensively. Now maybe he creates the "Amir model" and if so good for him.
  19. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Problem is I don't think we have anybody teaching him how to be an NBA player and that is why he is showing no improvement.

    He talks about staying after practice but is that by himself and what is he doing? Are they teaching him post moves that he can't possibly pull off against opposing players because he is still too light? Are they working on his 15' jump shot?

    Right now his skills are rebounding, blocking shots, running the floor quickly and rotating and recovering on defense.

    I want to know what they are doing to develop him or are they letting a 21 year old kid try and develop himself?
  20. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If Sheed farted in the wrong direction I would probably call a T on him too....

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