at New Jersey Nets Wednesday October 27 7:00 pm

Discussion in 'October 2010' started by roscoe36, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Tay should not have been the trigger guy. And Stuckey should not have been on the floor. In fact, Kuester had pretty much exactly the wrong guys in. TMAC could have triggered, with Daye, Tay, and CV in all tall guys as threats to shoot. and either Gordon, or Rip, who is taller, as yet another 3 point threat.

    Basically, instead, we got a pathetic shot from Stuckey, who in no way is a 3 point shooter just because he hit a few in the preseason of late.

    And speaking of Daye, some have defended starting Daye at power forward, believing as a starter he would also see time at shooting guard or small forward. Nope. Just power forward. Madness.
  2. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    We played good balanced basketball for about 40 minutes. The 1st quarter was BLAH (by both teams), the start of the 2nd qtr was awful by the bench, but they turned in on when T-Mac came in for Rip at the SF spot, yes Q just keeps trying to get away with Rip at SF....uuuggghhh.....The 3rd qtr was eh, then the 2nd unit THRIVED again!!! The starters came back in and held shop, then we went super small. Small ball did not hurt us because NJ went small too. What hurt us was running our offense through Tayshaun down the stretch (in all fairness he had a mismatch), but that's just not Tay, he's not good enough where you can go to him down the stretch and he delivers, nor is Rip. The other problem is Stuckey at the point down the stretch, he gets so confused and passive.

    IMO, T-Mac was fantastic!!! Folks THIS is what a PG should be able to do for us, tonight he showed me just how average our so-called All Stars, Psuedo All Stars (Tay), supposed future all-stars (Stuck) are. This dude got our offense some GREAT shots in the half court, he looked up court for early offense, he's still drawing double teams and making pin point passes, once that J starts to fall..........WATCH OUT! I mean this guy isn't even close to being 100% healthy, he's nothing close to what he used to be, but mark my words: T-MAC WILL BE STARTING COME TRADE DEADLINE!!!! The game is EASY for him and I think he's seeing the game better than he ever has. This may be one of those (low risk/high reward) LUCKY moves by Joe that makes it seem as if he's smarter than everybody else.

    Well in the words of D-Wade, I guess we're not going 82-0, sorry.
  3. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Bynum and Maxiel stayed in too long in the 4th. Bynum is not a scorer--(you don't want him acting as a scorer in the last 6 mintues) and Maxiel does not shoot free throws well. Maxiel had a bunch of incredible opportunities down low the entire game and while he had some success, not enough at the NBA level. When that unit was changed finally ( and the team had a decent lead) the momemtum was swinging a bit. CV should have been left in. He was hot and rebounding. There was no continuity between the units. I wonder whether two undersized players like Bynum and Maxiel should play a lot together. Gordon is undersized as well.

    Stuckey backing a guy down is low percentage. Tay initiating the offense time and again is low percentage. Virtually any NBA team would have managed that lead.

    This game was given away. New Jersey is still bad.

    Hard to tell where this team will be. The offense is better but not certain whether that will produce more wins or not.
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The good thing about riding out Ben's 50% shooting average from the line is that we are set on D every time and we have one of our best defenders and rebounders in the game. And I would hope that 1 point of expected value per possession beats the other team in the long run.

    The bad thing is that it drastically increases the number of possessions, which can allow a team down to catch up through good fortune.

    Tonight, Q saw a small sample size from Ben and went with his gut. When you're up 3-4 points, there is a strong chance that you will win either way (pulling him or leaving him in), so coaches can get positive feedback from making a slightly worse decision.

    This was one of those occasions when we may have lost either way. They were pumped and were making shots.

    One other thing to take into consideration are the severity of Ben's bricks. 2 airballs probably made Q doubt the 1 point of expected value per possession that he knew he was good for on paper.
  5. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    We didn't lose this game because of Hack A Ben. Small Ball didn't lose it either. We lost because down the stretch NJ put the game into the hands of their best 1on1 player (Devin Harris) and he either scored, got fouled, or got a shot for a teammate. We went to Tayshaun Prince and he COULD NOT DELIVER! Nor could we get a stop on defense. In NBA games down the stretch you need players who can knock down shots from the perimeter (NJ did that) and the guy who is getting paid by the Pistons to do that only took 6 shots in the entire game. We gotta start getting the ball in Gordo's hands down the stretch, not Rip, AND DEFINITELY NOT TAYSHAUN PRINCE!!!!!
  6. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    And another thing, I know it looks like Ben Wallace is a defensive beast, but night in night out, I don't think he's any better than Jason Maxiel RIGHT NOW. Max BATTLED Lopez waaaaay better than Ben did.
  7. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    I just hate watching Stuckey get all deferential - and then take 1 shot in the 4th quarter after he came back in after all that stuff where Tay or Rip or Gordon --- anybody but Stuckey initiated our offense. The reason I hate that is that Stuckey played a great game up to that quarter, and because we've seen the tune too many times where when Rip and Tay are on the floor, they run the offense.

    Look, I like Tay on any team in the league. The guy's a quality player. But if you're tabbing him to be your go to guy down the stretch in games, then you're really F'd, since Tay is in the lower echelon of closing guys in the NBA.
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree with this. Ben is still strong, but I'm really wondering why Maxiell isn't automatically the starting PF. We have too many rabbits in the china shop.
  9. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    This idea that Tay and Rip HAVE to be on the floor at the end of games is total BS IMO! Based on the way the game went, Stuckey, Gordo, T-Mac, Max and CV should have closed the game out. The 2nd unit was clearly better than the first tonight with Stuckey being the only exception. When you are a championship contender that has a definite identity I understand having a set in stone closing lineup, but us??????
  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Note, we tabbed him as the go to guy - going up their power forward. Totally stupid. We have plenty of bigs, we could have played Daye or Tay at shooting guard some in this game and gave them the advantage.
  11. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    We can't do that when we have 2 SG's who have to get their minutes. Seriously RIP HAS TO GO! It's the only way we can get guys playing their natural positions.
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Billups was the closer. Rip is semi clutch if he can get open... but that never seems to happen when things tighten up at the end or if there is less than a full shot clock for the final possession.

    Tay is smart with the ball, but he's too slow to do much by himself.

    Bynum and Stuck aren't outside threats, so the D will just prevent their drives in crunch time.

    I actually thought the play where a guard and TMac played 2-man ball was looking good... even though he didn't score at all. I agree with Lee that the D seemed to be respecting him for some reason.

    In the very end, you know that you're going to be fully guarded, so get in the best shooters- Gordon, Rip, CV, and the tallest shooters- Tay and Daye. You don't need dribblers with limited range in there. Maybe a pick setter like Ben or Maxiell.
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    If they weren't playing the Nets this wouldn't have been so bad. The Pistons did have some balance out there that was nice to see.

    I thought the Nets made T-Mac look better than he was by playing him so tightly. I thought it was 2001 for a second.

    What's the point of taking Ben out and replacing him with Max? That's like a .006 gain in FT%.

    I too thought sitting Stuckey for so long was odd. Even odder was that he was the 1st guy subbed out despite his total body makeove this summer.

    Favors picked Chuckles apart in the 1st half.

    Daye never played the 3 tonight.

    Monroe will play when CG's shot isn't falling, I think.
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm really happy for the Nets that they don't have to worry about an 0-18 start again.
  15. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    But we could have one if it takes Q six weeks how to figure out who to play at the end of a game....:yellowprison:
  16. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Just watched the replay, it's worse the 2nd time around. Coaching BAD! Gordo's defense, REALLY BAD!! Too much ball watching, and Tay was our go to guy down the stretch, Stuckey had 12 pts with 9:30 left in the 3rd qtr, he finished the game with 14????? This is a game where the film guys earn their paychecks. But all in all, the Pistons played a good game (against a bad team). Oh and CV is so defensively inept it's not even funny as is Austin Daye's defense from the PF spot, it wasn't so much that he was out muscled he just doesn't know the defensive rotations from that spot.

    All the talk about Austin playing PF was that Ben would have his back, well in the end NOBODY had Ben's back tonight, when Austin Daye is our last line of defense and rebounding, heaven help us.
  17. S.J.

    S.J. Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    We Need to rebuild and we need to do it RIGHT NOW..

    As I said before.. we need to get the Defense back in Detroit, and No matter how much Ben wallace wil lcoach Villanueva, he won't be a defensive minded PF. he is a Scorer SF without the penetration of a regular SF like Anthony or Lebron. So i'm just saying that CV is a weird and BAD mix that PERHAPS in some teams might work.

    NOT IN DETROIT, SIR.

    We need to trade CV, Ben Gordon, Rip Hamilton, Jason Maxiell..

    we need to get a 7 footer CENTER with some hustle, defensive minded and able to defend and grab rebounds. (a Marcus Camby-like player.. don't have to be a STAR)

    And we need to get a Point guard..

    So in a rotation with a PG - Stuckey - Prince/Daye - Jerebko/monroe - Center with the backup of Bynum, Daye, Summers, Monroe, Ben Wallace, McGrady .. I think taht with that team and A TRUE Coach we might make the playoffs..


    I KNOW (damn..) that i'm speculating and talking nonsense.. but its 03:41 AM here and I can't sleep because I'm too angry with this team.. but I love the Pistons and is hard to me to see NO F***ING future ahead..

    I mean, look around the league and you will se some teams that probably won't make the playoffs but they all have a young player with tremendous (or higher than normal) upside.. let's see..
    Sacramento (Evans - Cousins) New Jersey (Harris - Lopez - Favors) Philadelphia (Iguodala - Turner - Holiday) - Washington (Wall - McGee) - Minnesota (Love - Flynn - Rubio's NBA rights) Memphis (Gay - Mayo) Indiana (Granger - Hibbert) - Cleveland (Hickson)

    The only team that I see that is struggling like us is Toronto.. they don't have a clear best player not even a star and (without counting Ed Davis or Greg Monroe) not even 1 rookie who strongly seems to have a dominant future in this league.

    Yes, I love Jerebko and I was really impressed about what I saw from Daye this last 8 games in the Pre-season.. but don't see them becoming All-Star players!

    Sorry guys.. I'm really sad.. and feeling even worse when look at the calendar and see that we will play th mighty Thunders friday, following Chicago the saturday..
    it's a 0 - 3 start for sure.. (hope not..)
  18. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Starter 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    no more Daye at the 4 pleeez
  19. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Well, Dumars is trying to "win now" after all.
  20. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Actually, the team is totally unbalanced - we're loaded at the 1-2 and 3, but our 4's are either super young and not ready to bang (Daye), or not physical and intimidating on D (CV), or a rookie who hasn't gotten off the bench yet (Monroe), and our 5's are both under 6'8".

    Guys, we just can't consistently defend the interior with this group.

    IMO, the truth of this team is that the coach has to play the hand he was dealt, and because of the imbalance, he doesn't have the cards to win all that much. Dumars isn't stupid - he knows the team is unbalanced and he knows that he has to showcase his players to get somebody to bite on a trade. We most likely need two legitimate bangers and no-fly zone type players - a center and a power forward. If we wait for draft picks to fill that need, we're likely a non-contender for another few seasons, as young big men tend not to be ready to play right away - even if we get lucky enough to draft a stud.

    This team is a classic recipe for a group that will struggle to play .500 ball. And it's going to stay that way for a long time. Stuckey, Daye and Monroe all might be top young players in this league. But that doesn't mean we'll win a lot of games or contend anytime soon.

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