At Minnesota January 19th, 8:00PM

Discussion in 'January 2007' started by Dlev59, Jan 18, 2007.

  1. 4cwebb

    4cwebb First Round Draft Pick

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    Just painful play down the stretch of this OT.

    With a 5-point lead, Chauncey commits a silly blocking foul 30 feet from the basket to give Mike James 2 freebies when the Twolves are having a difficult time scoring.

    Next, CWebb wiffs on a pick for Rip (lazily, I might add), then takes a pass and fires up an elbow jumper (which he missed)...he had been working well to get guys makeable shots, so I didn't like that shot by CWebb.

    Then, after Foye hits a three to tie the game, CB takes a quick jumper instead of working through the offense.

    And now, Mike James just hit a ridiculous three to give the Twolves a three-point lead against great defense by Rip and Sheed on a pick and roll.

    This would definitely be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory tonight, especially with KG not playing after getting ejected.
     
  2. 4cwebb

    4cwebb First Round Draft Pick

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    MR. BIG SHOT! Another 5 minutes of life for the Pistons to get back on the right track.
     
  3. 4cwebb

    4cwebb First Round Draft Pick

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    Well, Mr. Big Shot saved this game at the end of the first OT, and the Twolves just didn't have the fire power to keep up in the second OT. Less than 30 seconds left, Pistons up by 7.

    I'd like to have seen CWebb get 2 or 3 more rebounds in the # of minutes he plays. And, he's going to have to start setting some actual picks (or making an effort to set some actual picks) for Rip running off of those baseline screens. It may have been one thing when he was with the Kings or the 76ers to not actually set those picks because he was a better offensive option than the guys he was setting the picks for, but that is not the case with Rip, so I would like to see that part of CWebb's game change.
     
  4. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    All I can is...WHEW. Thank GOODNESS they won that game. Good summary of the insanity down the stretch by 4cwebb at the top of this page.

    Play of the game was probably Dice getting KG thrown out of the game. :biggrin1: Pistons won in the 2nd OT by finally getting into the lane and getting better shots. In spite of KG getting run with 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter, the Pistons took forever to start taking advantage by going to the bucket to get better shots. They darn near blew it in the first OT by jump shooting the Wolves back into it. Mike actually stepped on the out-of-bounds line just before he threw in his insane 3 that put them ahead in the last seconds of that OT, and the refs missed it, but it was absolutely the Pistons' own fault for letting Minnesota get into the position where a crazy play like that almost decided the game.

    CWebb was 8-12 from the floor, and JMax got back into the rotation. Though now it looks like Dale might be back out of it; he got a DNP.
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Dice didn't back down or take any crap from KG who is mean looking but really a big softie when it comes time to throw down.

    Mark Madsen is an unbelievably poor man's Bill Laimbeer. He is so annoying.

    Hard to believe it takes us no KG, no Ricky Davis and multiple OTs to get a win, but I will take it.
     
  6. Stons-n-Suns

    Stons-n-Suns Second Round Draft Pick

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    This was an amazing game. Tough shots, crazy shots, bad shots. Had it all.

    Just some quick observations.

    1) Sheed is best in the post, maybe he is saving his energy, i dunno, but he looks so effortless and good down there, he should go there 75% of the time or more. I know he can knock down the three, but his post scoring is awesome still.

    2) Foye is gonna be a great player. He still makes rookie mistakes, but he is a great shooter and makes some good passes in the clutch.

    3) Billups is still Mr. Big Shot, but this game would have been over in one overtime if we ran some more set plays, ran down the shot clock, and took easy shots, cus those 2 quick shots by Webber and Billups let them come back into the game.

    Otherwise, lets hope this game is the start of something good.
     
  7. lapeapod

    lapeapod First Round Draft Pick

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    Wow Chauncey redeemed himself tonight willing to take the big shots in crunch time. That 3 by Mike James was just sick and he was even fouled by Sheed. The Pistons look to be running in mud with Chris Webber in the starting lineup but that's going to be Piston basketball from now on, not much running and gunning. Another DNP for Nazr so he's definitely going to be traded. Flip Murray got a few minutes but he's so gun shy now I don't think he even put up a shot so he's just not in the plans for the rest of the season. I saw Dupree in a suit so he was deactivated with all the bodies we have and any reason that Dale Davis was a DNP? Someone is going to be heading out of the stable pretty soon. Sheed actually looked engaged tonight but jeez on racking up another tech! Kevin Garnett should be suspended for at least a game he did try to throw a punch (weak sister as it was) at Dice. I thought those two were friends?
     
  8. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    LA Dre and I were confused by the aftermath of the KG-Dice scuffle that got both of them thrown out. It happened after Rip got an and one. Dice was called for two techs, so he was automatically thrown out, and I thought KG was also called for two techs. But once it was all sorted out, the Wolves got one technical FT, but the Pistons didn't get any; the only FT they shot was Rip's and one. I guess KG must have gotten only ONE tech, but an ejection nonetheless? If they ruled that he had thrown a punch, I guess that would explain it--one tech and an automatic ejection. With Dice's two techs--one for pushing Madsen (a ridiculous flop by the Mad Dog) and another one for getting into it with KG--I guess that would explain why the Wolves got one FT to the Pistons' none. Although I thought you would just shoot FTs for all of the techs at that point, i.e. the Wolves get two and the Pistons get one. But, that wasn't what happened.
     
  9. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Slip-cap.

    Double OT win. MVP is McDyess for getting KG ejected. Way to take one for the team big guy. CB carried this team for stretches but tried to do it too much and allowed the bad guys to get back in it. Mike "I stepped out of bounds" James hit a miracle shot but CB was all cold blooded to tie it up.

    CWebb was ok. Some nice passes. He hit 67% from the field. Sheed was great. We wonder where that post game went but in crunch time he was scoring from the block. He also did a good job on KG and when it counted, came up with the rebounds.

    But where would we be without Rip. Rip hit some nice jumpers and grabbed some key offensive rebounds to keep us alive when we should have died.

    Tay was forgetable. made some plays...flubbed others. Jmax contributed off the bench. Delfino was unremarkable. Hunter was terrible.

    Same story as usual - lane penetration. Opposing bigs grab a ton of rebounds. we never crash unless we are desparate.

    Pluses...Jmax got some time, scored, passes (once?) and blocked a shot. Sheed took to the post and scored well. CW looks like a nice addition to the pistons...even if we do look reallly reallllllly reaaaaaaaalllly slow with CB, cWebb, and sheed on the floor.
     
  10. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    Good recap, Slip. Tay had a lousy game tonight. Rip struggled at the beginning of the game, but he got hot down the stretch and made a lot of really tough clutch shots, plus a few big offensive rebounds at key moments as well.
     
  11. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    We won!!!!:cheerleader: :dancingparty: :thumb: :rapture: :whoo:

    We score more points in the two 5 minute OT's (25) than we did in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd quarters. Only 11 points from the bench, with Max contributing 7 pts, 3 brds and a key block in crunch time.

    Terrible first half with CWebb being the only consistent player hitting 4/5 from the field. 3rd quarter wasn't that much better as the Pistons muster only 14 pts, but poor play by Twolves keep us within striking distance.

    4th quarter, CB wakes up..scoring the Pistons first 10 (somebody correct me). Dice and KG mix it up after a mad madsen flop and both get tossed. Somebody on chat at that point declares Dice da playa of da game. I think the score was tied at 70 when this occurred. Both teams trade hoops and ironically the teams are tied at 79 at the end of regulation...which was the same score on Monday night at the end of regulation.

    New game and with the help of CB and Rip, Pistons start to put it together and pull away...wait stop the presses. CB wants to be the hero and throws up an uneccessary three ball and then a bad shot by CWebb and the Twolves come back and take the lead on 3 balls by Foye and Mjames. the last one was unbelievable as he tossed it from the side lines after stepping out of bounds...no call:bs: CB redeems himself with a 3 ball with 3 seconds left to send the game into the second OT. There Sheeds wakes up and he CWebb, Rip and Cb take us home to victory. Even Tay who had a horrible game shooting 3-11 had a hoop in the second OT driving to the hoop for an and 1 situation.

    51 mins for Rip, 47 for CB, 46 for Tay, 44 for Sheed and 38 for Webber as he scored 18 pts and grabbed 7 boards. Kings will be running tomorrow..so expect to see Nazr and Flip jr tomorrow with our top 5 winded from tonight
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The Geriatric Five
     
  13. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Webber is an answer to our woeful offense. We still had the usual dry spell. But you can see that just getting the ball to Chris is going to open up our offense and take pressure off everyone. We won't need the play book. Get it to Chris and work off of him--that "play" is better than anything we have been running.

    My only concern with Chris is his closing out on the driver. Will he be able to help when a Wade comes at us?

    We still have very poor execution on offense as we really don't know where to go (Tollner was right on on his comment on tv).

    A lingering problem is the bench. We had Hunter, Delfino and Dyss on the floor at the same time. Won't work. Not enough scoring. Dyss is not consistent enough these days. Delfino needs to be coupled with scorers only. Maxiel got in and that is where the ball needs to go. But Joe needs either to get a back up point or a scorer to play with that unit.

    The zone is a momentum stopper. We are up 6 in the 2nd and we zone. Open three and then a Minn. put back. Our run is stopped. Same thing later in the game. Our zoning breaks our own momentum!!!

    We need to think about keeping Davis for Shaq and getting a scorer for the 2nd unit. We need to figure out if we have enough defense for drivers. This team can still go a long, long way.
     
  14. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Good win. Webber's first start as a Piston, and we win. Maxiell back in the rotation where he belongs. Webber was very good in the post, again, passing out of the post very effectively. Four assists, which happens to be half as many as Mohammed has for the season so far. Webber is not as healthy, or as quick, as we would all like him to be, but man does he know how to work with what he has. His scoring around the basket was from smarts as much as anything. Very good stuff. Not really any of the classic post up moves from him tonight, but man does he draw attention, because everyone knows he has those moves. He scored by dribbling to the basket, practically in slow motion compared to some drives in, but in total control. And he finished. He hit an open midrange jump shot. He got a hook shot in going away from a scramble. No trips to the line as I recall. Yes, I expected him to start from what I have been reading on the Web yesterday and today, and yes I was thrilled to hear just before gametime, again from the net, that he was going to start for sure.

    We have a pretty darn good starting five, and we know it will get better each game for most of the rest of the season as Webber learns to integrate his excellent skills into our offense. Good things to come.

    In this game, most of the good post play was in the first half, and we outscored Minny 22-10 in the paint. In the 2nd half, we went away from the post game, especially by the 4th quarter after early in that quarter Delfino and Maxiell were pulled from the game. It can get better. Between Webber and JMAX, we can have a post game going every minute of the game. If us fans are really lucky, we will get to see Amir Johnson added to the mix.

    No post up move scoring from JMAX tonight. He hit a midranger. He got a dunk. He made one of two at the line. You got to love how high up he went to get that one offensive rebound. (which he failed to cash in, but still, wow)

    Whats even more encouraging is the many end of quarter / OT situations where Flip trusted JMAX in there for the defensive play.

    CB nailed a triple to send this one into a second OT. Yes, he goofed up big though with a foul he should never have committed to help keep Minny in the game at one point, but hey, nobody is perfect. As far as I can tell though, among point guards in this league, CB is closest.

    Rip, along with CB, and Tay even, were cold in the first half on their outside shooting. It was kind of strange watching us struggle despite all those paint points. Its like the team is struggling to find its new identity. Here is this excellent post play, yet here also is one missed triple try after another. Hey, keep getting that ball inside.

    More next post. GO PISTONS!!!!!
    Rip and CB both heated it up big time in the 2nd half, with CB really lighting it up in the 4th. What 3, or was it 4 triples? Tay never did get it going in the scoring department, but he did have some clutch scoring in OT.

    Delfino did little. Played some good D. Hey, pretty much everyone who played did good on D really. Garnett was held to precious little scoring. If it was not for the incredible shooting touch Blount found all the sudden (I guess he has been doing this for a spell actually this year)Minny would have been way behind in this one.

    Dyess was pretty invisible. I still say give me the continual great D by Dale Davis rather than the occasional scoring burst by Dyess. I like them both actually. Just like Dale Davis more. Dale Davis, and Mohammed, did not play in this game. No Blalock. Very little Murray, about 4 minutes in the 4th quarter.

    Sheed did some scoring from the post, but he also missed quite a few threes if I recall right. I think if we had never shot a three in this game, we win by 12 to 14 in regulation. Of course, yes, CB did get hot from behind the line in the 4th quarter, but could that really make up for the rest of the missed threes?

    Tonight, we used a fairly short rotation. Hunter was the only backup point used, and only played about 9 or 10 minutes. Billups played way, way too long, especially for the front end of a back to back. Hunter played just a bit of shooting gaurd among those minutes, and Murray played about 4 minutes of shooting guard. Delfino played a long stint in the 1st half, and barely played in the 2nd half. Dyess played plenty. Maxiell plenty. Let me see, thats five starters, plus short minutes for 3 players off the bench, and long minutes for 2 other players off the bench. Still 10 guys involved.

    I got to bring up the backup point guard play. Don't read this part if you don't like hearing negatives about Hunter. Look, Hunter running the point tonight meant one real simple thing: We don't get to score. I will of course point out that the other team was not scoring a whole lot either, but we were falling back a bit if Hunter was running the point. We really don't have to do that, fall back every time Billups goes out of the game. There is one point gaurd, really two, who we can play at the point and keep our ground. Will Blalock and Delfino. (Throwing out Blalock's worst plus minus game, Blalock is virtually even this season.) I like Will's defense, the energy he brings the ball up the floor with, and his ability to dribble into their defense and get someone an easy bucket. Enough for now. Lots of progress. Got to love it. GO PISTONS!!!!! GO WEBBER!!!!!
     
  15. 4cwebb

    4cwebb First Round Draft Pick

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    I've not seen this guy play much, but I would have to agree that he may as well have not been on the floor for all of his contributions tonight. Is the problem that he was slightly over-hyped as a bigger Manu when he was drafted, or that Flip Sr. isn't using his talents properly?

    I thought JMax looked good in his minutes, although he seems a bit lost offensively after he sets screens. I presume he got minutes over DDavis tonight because the Twolves only post threat is KG, so DDavis post defensive skills weren't really needed.

    I'm hoping (against hope) that being on a team with players/leaders that actually thrive on outworking opponents will rub off on CWebb. I personally thought he would've adjusted by this point (three+ years after returning from his knee injury), but since he cannot rely on athleticism, he needs to give more physical effort (like locking Madsen away from a board instead of trying to get the rebound if it's going to cause him to lose track of Madsen, etc.). I thought he did a decent job tonight of at least trying to get back to Blount on the perimeter, although the effort had little effect on Blount raining in long jumpers...probably just a shot a defense has to live with at that point.
     
  16. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Agree with your analysis Lee. Hunter brought nothing to the table tonight and as per usual, he is only going to contribute to two games a week and he already had those on Monday and Wednesday. :)

    The lull in the second qtr only proves that we still need that backup PG. Don't need to wait to trading deadline, make the deal before the end of the month.
     
  17. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Also, we need someone to inject the team with some fire. I think we have too many guys that have 'been there' too often. They seem lacksadasical.
     
  18. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Dale Davis can't guard Shaq. Too short. And as tough as Davis is, he is a complete push over to Shaq who is around 80 pounds or so heavier.

    As for the zone, you got to admit that except for Blount hitting a bunch of shots our defense was pretty darn solid tonight. Two of our worst defenders, Mohammed and Murray, are out of the rotation. That zone limited Garnett to only the toughest shots possible. You got to take the good with the bad. I believe a zone is ok, as long as you don't have guys like Mohammed and Murray in who will not do their share.

    I do agree that we should keep Dale Davis, even over Dyess. Dale Davis is one heck of a defender. Even though he can't guard Shaq, at least he is excellent depth for when Sheed inevitably gets in foul trouble from gurading Shaq.

    I will not agree that backup point, or even another scorer, is what we need to get with the trade assets we have. A big who can guard Shaq is what we need more than anything. As you kind of noted, what Delfino is good for is making other guys around him better. Delfino can run the point. Hunter does not have to backup Billups. The more guys like Hunter and Murray backup Billups, the more it seems we need a backup point. But we simply never ever need to play either of these guys at point. Between Delfino, Tay, and Blalock (with Rip playing a lot of defense on points) we have all the backup point play we need. It takes no more than a choice from the coach.

    We have another scorer not playing. His name is Amir Johnson. To me, he is the guy who should be getting the minutes Dyess got tonight. Far more active on D, and a true threat anywhere near the basket. This guy can, just like Sheed, go rigth up an over the defense. And like Sheed, if not even more so, he hits those shots.

    We can get all kinds of increased scoring out of our post play yet. CB, Rip, Tay, Sheed, and now Webber, give us a ton of good scorers. With proper point play and stressing going inside, you can add JMAX and Amir to that list of scorers. That is a lot of scoring.
     
  19. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    i agree about hunter this game. too much time went off the clock before the play was initiated.

    We also stop the ball movement at the post. its annoying. Rip, Tay, everyone does it. totally stops the flow
     
  20. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Lee,

    True, the defense was better tonight and I breath a sigh of relief for it. We are not going to beat people 102 to 98 as many have noted. But the zone is used too often in my opinion. Unless we want to keep a Wade out of the lane late in the game, I wouldn't zone in the last few minutes. But I am not against a zone totally, as it is a useful tool.

    Getting someone for Shaq is never a bad idea. He shoots an incredible percentage against us. I am hoping that Davis can slow down an older Shaq. Anyway, yes, we need his fouls regardless.

    My point is that we are just not getting enough scoring from that second unit. Dre, I think, agrees on this. It is not going to get better unless we make some moves, yours, mine, someone elses.

    Right, I like Delfino but he should be paired with scorers. Paradoxically, he actually works best with the first unit.

    I really like this Maxiell. I would throw him the ball like 75% of the time over anyone else on the second unit. Don't know anything about Amir's game...

    Webber is going to be huge....
     

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