At Milwaukee Bucks Feb. 7th, 8:30 PM

Discussion in 'February 2009' started by Dlev59, Feb 1, 2009.

  1. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Entertaining and infuriating all at once.

    Take a bad team already in Milwaukee. Then Remove 3 starters, and it still takes 3 guys "going off" for 27+ each in OVERTIME to eek out a win.

    This is what it has come to.
  2. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Worst penetration defense since the 5th game of the season when Devin Harris sliced and diced himself through the lane as if there was no one there. Still despite the defense a nailbiter from the end of the third to the end of the game as I don't think either team could stretch it out more than 3 pts until the end.

    When is the last time the Pistons had "just" two player score 54 points off the bench...and one scored 38??

    Pistons gave up 77 points from two players and we can only second guess that if hairless Villanueava had not fouled out what the outcome would have been..

    But it was an entertaining game and a OT loss would have been a crusher as we still have a game with the running Suns tomorrow... Thank goodness that is not a morning game....
  3. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Very exciting, tense game. Overtime victory. Lots of hollering going on here.

    I'll start out with the bad. Sheed and Dyess represent zero defense around the basket. Curry way overplayed this in the 2nd half, playing the two together from 6 minutes into the 3rd quarter, right thru to the end of OT. And Milwaukee has a smart coach. He had his players drive to the unoccupied hoop area and had them occupy that hoop. Again, and again, and again. Worst defense we have played in a long, long time.

    Now the rest, I will stay positive. Its not like I could not list a few more little problems, but they simply pail in comparison to that one.

    Dyess. Too many jumpers in the 1st half. He did work inside some, but not nearly enough considering who we were playing, a team devoid of interior defense. Dyess proved my point well in the 2nd half, going inside plenty to force Milwaukee to start playing a bit closer to the basket - and it opened up our offense well. Dyess was great at knocking down the shots off the several pick and rolls with AI. Great stuff. Heck, Dyess even drew some key fouls - the best of all being the one to sit Villanueva with his 6th foul. Now that is how Dyess should be playing. Go inside.

    AI was great, drawing fouls constantly, and getting to the hoop. He scored about 27 I believe, mostly at the free throw line. His jumper from above the free throw line was clutch late in OT. And what an assist machine he became late in the game. Mostly to Dyess.

    Sheed. What can you say. Seven triples. Good board work. Solid D. And he even did some work inside.

    Stuckey. Had trouble getting it going in the first half, got it together in the 2nd half a bit but got into foul trouble.

    Rip. 34 points, off the bench. That and 16 from Dyess means we hit 50 bench points. Why change a thing. Don't mess with success. Rip was just about all jumpers, but he did go inside some, including in OT when Milwaukee was forced to go ultra small.

    Afflalo. Just played good D. He was in a lot for defensive plays toward the end of regulation and the end of OT.

    JMAX. Got some O boards for us, and played good D - though Villanueva is certainly a tough matchup for him. Curry made a huge mistake by not putting JMAX in some for the 4th quarter. Sheed could have sat and rested. Note, Sheed never did hit another 3 during the extended minutes with no rest. Look Curry - you got it right by starting Amir, who can do the dirty work, and let Sheed have lots of extra energy. Keep Sheed's energy up by continuing this, plus giving him proper rest, and you got a great player. Understand, Sheed with no energy - thats a coach's choice. Don't do it.

    Tay did a bit of everything, including guarding Jefferson.

    Amir got an alley oop from Stuckey, and went way up for it and guided it in barely with his left hand. Pretty amazing shot. He also got an slamback offensive rebound, for which he got a tech for slapping the backboard. These refs need to get a life. Anyway, our defense was pretty good with him in, as he managed to shadow the ball a lot, plus play his own guy pretty well. His presence on the O boards was very tiring for Milwaukee to deal with - and of course it prevented some from getting any jumpstarts on their offense as they were too busy just making sure they get the defensive bound. Amir also helped by drawing fouls in some of those scrambles for the ball.

    AI and Stuckey draw the fouls. Them starting, just for this reason, works. And AI is not getting any younger. With him and AI taking turns busting moves inside, both can go at this all game long. Again, it works, leave it alone.

    Sharpe dressed tonight. I don't know the story on that. Maybe Herrmann got time off to see his newborn.
  4. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Oh definitely agree with ya man on the dribble penetration defense... absolutely ZERO communication out there and no one was helping each other out.

    I can't deny that it was a great game to watch though... I can't remember the last game we played where so many guys had huge games, especially off the bench.
  5. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    ...and Jarvis Hayes scores 14 points of the bench for New Jersey...
  6. Jewelz0376

    Jewelz0376 First Round Draft Pick

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    Pistons better get their mind right for tomorrows game because they're going to see more pick and roll with Nash & Amare..especially when Shaq isn't in the game...although it will be a little different because Nash is looking to pass or shoot the jumper..he wont take it all the way to the cup everytime like Sessions did...
  7. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Detnews advised that Joe gave Hermann a couple days off to attend to his newborn daughter.

    Sharpe probably thought the Pistons would get a blowout and he could play in garbage time :confused: We thought in chat when the Pistons went up 13 at the beginning of the second it would be a blowout too.
  8. Jewelz0376

    Jewelz0376 First Round Draft Pick

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    Oh and 1 other note....even though the Pistons play Horrible D...it was nice to see them execute down the stretch and come thru in the clutch...they responded to almost every Bucks basket...and even when they got down by 6 in the 4th...they didnt panic..
  9. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I'm not really worried about the Suns... they're worse than we are. Nash is a shell of his former self and they have an idiot coach that can match ours bad decision for bad decision.
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Lotta fun in chat tonight. Return of D4E and Delfino Delivers. Our good luck charms.

    I enjoyed the last 2 minutes of the 4th and overtime very much.

    Sheed hit 7 treys which is I believe a new personal high for him. Pretty impressive, he kept us in the game.
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm going to try to break down what happened in the paint vs. out of the paint this game. It seemed like the Bucks were thrashing us inside, but we got in on them a lot too.

    Can you believe Sessions was in the D-League last year? That guy has some serious moves and finishing ability. I'm very impressed.

    Anyways, here it goes. I'm breaking out 1) at the rim and 2) in the paint. At the rim = dunks, layups, point blank drop ins, and point blank misses. In the paint = all other shots in the paint where the ball had to actually take flight. For the fun of it, I'll assume that all FT's occured on shot attempts in the paint. It seemed like most of them did. For the inside total, I'll convert FT's into FG's. 4-4 = 2-2. Will round down.

    Milwaukee- (paint = in paint, but not at rim)
    Player/@rim/paint/FT's/ PIP TOT/tFG%
    C. Vill/ 2-3/ 3-4/ 9-11/ 19 pts on 15 shots/ 79%
    R. Jeff/ 3-5/ 1-1/ 1-2/ 9 pts on 7 shots/ 64% (tech FT removed)
    F. Elst/ 0-1/ 0-2/ 0-0.........
    R. Ses/ 6-6/ 5-6/ 18-21/ 40 pts on 22 shots/ 91%
    Bogan/ 2-3/ 1-2/ 2-2/ 8 pts on 6 shots/ 67%
    Booty/ 1-2/ 0-1/ 0-0/ 2 pts on 3 shots/ 33%
    Gatzu/ 0-1/ 0-0/ 1-2/ 1 pt on 2 shots/ 25%

    DETROIT
    Player/@rim/paint/FT's/ PIP TOT/tFG%
    Amir J/ 2-2/ 0-0/ 1-2/ 5 pts on 3 shots/ 83%
    Prince/ 2-5/ 0-2/ 0-0/ 4 pts on 7 shots/ 29%
    Sheed/ 1-1/ 0-0/ 0-0/ 2 pts on 1 shot/ 100%
    Stuck/ 1-5/ 0-1/ 4-4/ 6 pts on 8 shots/ 38%
    A Iver/3-6/1-6/12-16/ 20 pts on 20 shots/ 50%
    Rip H/ 5-7/ 0-1/ 2-2/ 12 pts on 9 shots/ 67% (last 4 FT's removed)
    Dyess/ 3-4/ 0-0/ 0-0/ 6 pts on 4 shots/ 75%
    Afflalo/ 0-0/ 0-0 ...................

    Comparing Milwauke to Detroit-

    Point blank shots at the rim:
    Det was 17-30
    Mil was 12-21

    Other shots in the paint:
    Det was 1-10
    Mil was 10-15

    FT's as a result of getting fouled in the paint:
    Det was 22-24 (end game FT's out)
    Mil was 32-39 (tech FT's removed)

    TOTAL PAINT RELATED POINTS:
    Det had 58 PIP on roughly 52 shot attmpts (56%).
    Mil had 76 PIP on roughly 55 shot attempts (69%).

    So, we lost the battle in the paint, but it wasn't for lack of effort. The biggest thing that jumps out at me is that except for point blank attempts, we were only 1-10 in other parts of the paint while Milwaukee was 10-15. As you can see from the table, our guards attempted 37 shots in the paint while our bigs attempted 8 (Amir- 3, Sheed- 1, Dyess- 4). So, if our bigs were attempting to spread the floor, they did a pretty good job of it. Except, our guards couldn't convert unless they got all the way to the hoop or drew the foul.

    How about Sessions though? With fouls, he was effectively 20-22 in the paint!!! That is outstanding.

    Our biggest defensive problems were exposed tonight. Our perimeter D was porous and we had no help defense with Sheed and Dyess in most of the game after the 1st quarter.

    With Amir in the game in the 1st, Sessions scored once in the paint and made 2 outside jumpers. Then Amir fouled him and got replaced by AM.
    With Amir in the game in the 3rd, Sessions made 0 FG's and got fouled twice by Sheed. So, 1 basket in the paint by Sessions with Amir in the game and 10 with him on the bench. Sheed and Dyess do not play help D the same way Amir and Maxiell do. However, with the way our perimeter D was letting Milwaukee past them, Amir and Max would have picked up quite a few fouls, as Sheed and Dyess had 9 PF's between them.

    Quite a game, unfortunately. We played Milwaukee without their 2 best players, Sheed sets a career high for 3-point makes while being efficient, we out rebound Milwaukee by 8, and it still goes to overtime.

    These numbers are going to be slightly overstated b/c not all shooting fouls occured in the paint. However, there weren't many bonus related FT's. Rip got a few at the end that weren't in the paint, so those 4 FT's were removed from his numbers. I also removed the 2 tech FT's from Mil. 1 from RJ, and I don't remember the other, so it's only out of the Total at the bottom.
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Think anyone in MIL is starting a 'Is Ramon Session the Best Buck?' thread?

    The Pistons team D is either A.) non-existent or B.) laughably bad.

    With 47 minutes tonight Sheed should be good & warm for Shaq tomorrow night.

    Was this Sheed's first tech since he came back? I can't even remember how many he has anymore.

    DET almost had a 24 second violation on their second possession tonight.

    Anyway, great win from a great team.
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    What gets me is how easy other(pick one) teams score on DET and how much harder the Pistons have to work on the other end to score.
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Lee. If you are re-watching the game, it would be interesting to know how many shooting fouls were NOT comitted on shooting attempts in the paint. I'm sure there were a few. That's basically the only missing information.

    We are one of the most inverse teams right now with our big men shooting well from outside and never venturing in the paint whie our guards struggle from outside and live in the paint.

    Rip is the exception as he is everywhere. What an offensive explosion from him tonight. 60% shooting too.
  15. The Palace Artest

    The Palace Artest First Round Draft Pick

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    Sess > Stuck

    I've had my eye on him since his 22 assist outburst.
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Sessions is really good on a pretty bad team. Most of his minutes have come without Redd.

    He's not your usual breakout guy. As you mentioned PA, you knew something was up with him. I've had him on and off my fantasy teams this year when he has been a starter.

    24 assists is a lot more impressive than 40 points.

    Ramon Sessions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  17. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Can we hire Van Gundy now?
  18. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I doubt there were any. I don't recall any. Not that I see why you need this info. Fouls on perimeter shooters are rare. Both teams went inside a lot. Us with AI, them with several players.
  19. pistonsin6

    pistonsin6 First Round Draft Pick

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    There is not a GM in the league that would agree with you. Sessions is more of a true point- that is the only thing he has over Stuckey. Stuck is the better scorer- stronger to the rack, better shooter (including 3 pt shooting), better rebounder, a considerably better defender (Sessions was moved to the bench because he defends about as well as Allen Iverson- without the steals). Sessions upside is a Jose Calderon type player -nice pure point- but a role player who also happens to be a defensive sieve.
  20. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    All i have to say is that Ramon Sessions can't shoot and dropped 44 and 12. Anything else in this game is irrelevant. We have a serious defensive problem at guard. Against a good team, heroics won't matter since we will be down by 20 anyway.

    I can't believe it's come to this.

    edited to add;

    We need to fore fit against any team that can run a successful pick and roll. If we are going to continue to sit the bigs that are quick enough to hedge and recover then we need to have perimeter defenders like AA playing it. And if we are going to continue to play our guards that look at screens as this immovable force that they can't even try to get past then we are screwed.

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