At LA Lakers November 16th, 10:30 PM

Discussion in 'November 2007' started by Dlev59, Nov 14, 2007.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It's a radical idea, that Joe Dumars might still know what he is doing every once in a while. I'm quick to criticize Joe, and was planning to write a blog post about it this weekend, until the kids played.

    It's not that I didn't think they were good, but I didn't think they would get a chance to prove it. There is a lot of interesting potential with this lineup, but it has to be explored, developed and nurtured. Not every seed will bear a tree, but I refuse to believe that our young guys are that much more inferior than any other young corps in the league, until it has been proven to me.

    I think we all know about Josh Howard, Tayshaun Prince and to a lesser degree Dwyane Wade. People weren't sure they could be stars but they are.
  2. daveg725

    daveg725 First Round Draft Pick

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    IMO Rip has lost it--dude's a couple steps from being washed up. I'd try to trade him...he can't get separation to get his shots off--he thinks he's a star mentally, but has ZERO one on one game and no handles...he still shoots as though he's the man instead of recognizing when he's off and deferring to Tay (tay should be a bigger part of the Offense and get more of Rip's shots).

    Lee 356 -- we'd win 60 games if we played the rooks?? some of you are ridiculous homers. I mean it's cool to be a homer, but to do it beyond rational belief is pretty funny/sad. No offense...

    Anyways--Amir has some problems out there--he doesn't box out effectively. I think that's because he's used to just being superathletic, but in the league everyone is for the most part...so you gotta fundamentally box out. Many occasions he just tried to jump for a ball and lost a couple that way.

    Cheikh surprised me--nice jumper from the baseline...obviously he needs some more playing time because he had that deer in the headlights look--for a first game though--his performance was amazing. (although he was dealing with a pretty piss poor front line). But I like him a lot...

    Flip %%%%ed up the whole offense...Jr. that is. Dude just doesn't know how to NOT BE GREEDY. Dude acts like he's trying to prove something on offense isntead of just running the show
  3. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    If you were held every time you made your cuts you would also have trouble getting separation.

    Yes AJ needs to learn to box out better, but as it stands he is still our best rebounder and good for over 12 a night average if he were to start. If you are going off of just last nights game you have to realize that there are not a lot of, less than a handful, guys that can block out Drew.




    :hoops:
  4. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    for everyone complaining about not giving the young guys time, you can't also complain about the loss. i'm happier with this loss than i am with a couple wins we've had this year.

    first the bad - flip and rip - yes another game where i did not like either. the problem with flip comes whenever he takes a jumper that is longer than 10 feet - it misses. well that and his porous defense, terrible turnovers, and poor decision-making. in the 1st half a couple lakers hit wide open shots with no one anywhere close to defend, and every time it was because flip wasn't even around to defend his man. then the pick-pocketing by farmar...just terrible (although a couple times lakers got steals they should've been over-the-back fouls). rip is dangerous against LA because he always makes it a personal battle against kobe and it hurts the team. to saunders' credit, he recognized this. rip was being unfairly defended, and the refs seemed afraid to call anything on kobe, but still.

    props to amir. i didn't think his defense was poor - just he'll have to learn some better positioning and get a little stronger. but sheesh, he had 4 blocks and 7 rebounds in only 18 minutes.

    hayes was great, and this was a mistake by flip to only give him 17 minutes. he was a scoring machine and really helped us come back in the 2nd quarter before the game was threatening to get out of hand. unlike delfino, he'll win us a playoff game when his shot is on.

    samb was incredible. is LA the biggest or strongest in the frontcourt? no. but samb looked like an NBA player either way. he was quick enough to jump out on 3-point shots twice and those super long arms came close to blocking them. he altered a ton of shots, blocked some more, and was an intimidating presence inside. he got pushed around a little bit trying to get rebounds, but he never looked outmatch or too weak. plus his jumpshot was smooth.

    i think what most people have forgotten though, is how poorly he used to run and how uncoordinated he used to look. last night he ran hard up and down the floor and never looked awkward. keep in mind this is the first year he's fully been with the pistons, and been properly coached on strength and conditioning. in the span of a couple months he looks like a completely different player.

    sheed looked like he took the night off and tay get somewhat lost in the shuffle when again he should've been more of a focus in the offense, but flip and rip weren't ready to give that up. hunter played alright in 7 minutes. jmax got hosed on calls again, which has happened in 3-4 games this year, but he was the only one who got to the line consistently, especially in the 1st half, and knocked down 7/8 (that's 13/16 in his last two games, raising his FT% from 55% to 62%).

    afflalo also looked great. there wasn't a ton offensively (as he didn't look for his shot or touch the ball that often), but he made a sweet basket cut to blow by his defender and amir gave him an excellent pass from the top of the key for an easy lay up. what was really impressive was his defense on kobe. tay can have problems because he backs off on kobe since he's got the length. rip does alright but usually has the wrong mindset against the lakers. but afflalo was tough - he stayed with kobe, never got bit on a pump fake, never got shaken out of his shoes, and challenged every shot. you can see why dumars likes bigger and longer guards. when stuckey comes back we're going to have consistent lineups where our shortest guy is 6-5.

    on the lakers' end, it was fun to watch bynum and farmar, who are going to be good players in this league. but let's not be fooled - they're still seriously flawed, and would've had no chance against us with chauncey in the lineup.

    it was definitely fun to watch our 'length lineup' with samb, amir, tay, hayes, and rip on the floor.

    one other thing that's bothered me is free throws. flip murray is an atrocious 56% this year - yes, we've been relying on a guard who shoots 6% worse at the line than maxiell. now look what happens when we get stuckey back - we've got two young guards who are superb at the line, and hayes hits them at an 83-85% clip as well. in other words, we're not going to be giving up as many free points, and good job to joe picking up long, strong players who can also hit a bunny.

    sure we haven't seen stuckey in a regular season game yet, but he's going to be so much of an upgrade over murray - especially because when he gets to the line he'll actually be making his free throws. and finally i'll give credit to saunders for playing his young guys in a tough arena, on national tv, and keeping them in there when they were playing well. whether that came from a joe dumars mandate or not doesn't matter.
  5. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Why was Rip always trying to post Kobe up? I have seen some folks reference Rip's star metality and I agree. To be a true superstar you need to be able to physically dominate your opponent. Rip would have to play CYO ball to do that. He is like your little brother - always trying his best to beat you, always a step slow and always to weak.

    Did anyone notice Samb's footwork when he had to come away from the basket? Atrocious may be an understatment. I think teams are going to put him in pick & rolls if he plays more. You could hide him in a zone though.

    Finally, what is up with Sheed and his T's? There is no way he has completely turned his act around. I smell a rat. Something is going on in the league office or something.
  6. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yes we got six vets in Sheed, Tay, Billups, Dice, Hayes and uh Rip; and some youngsters to train and groom in Max, Samb, Stuckey, Afflolo and Johnson. But Murray, Hunter, Nazr and Dupree are dead weight and we need to find replacements sooner than later at least by the allstar break.

    Only Murray contributes inconsistently as it is, but the others should be shipped out or released to make room for Meija and Webber as they can sit on the bench and be more productive than Dupree and 37 year old Hunter. At this point even 38 year old PJ Brown who is sitting at home could be more more productive than Nazr at least on the defensive end...

    We saw some action out of our young players on this trip, but whose to say that those guys will get more burn when Dice comes back? We all know Flip sr.:messer:

    The Piston enigma on this west coast trip has been Rip... I don't know if he misses his newborn or that he just doesn't play well in the Red uniforms, but he needs to play smart himself when Billups is out.
  7. max

    max All-Star

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    Enjoyed reading through the posts.

    Amir and Samb made it a very interesting game. Had a glimse of the future with those 2 comming off the bench trying to block everything in site. Kind of took be back to the Rodman/Sally rookie season. Daley was a great coach, not sure if what we saw will sink in with Flip especially once Dyess gets back. Also I am sure Phil Jackson was just as surprised as we were to see Samb play so there was probably no plan at all on how to play him. Not even time for a half time adjustment since he played in the 3rd.

    Other than that Lamar Odom had a career game. If he played that way every game he would be the premier PF which he is not. Pistons will get another shot at him and the Laker team so we will have to wait until then.

    Rip needs some slack. He missed the whole last 2/3 of the pre-season and a few more games earlier in the season. Give him some time. We all know the type of player he is and he will get it back soon.
  8. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Sure you can. The young guys were the only reason we were in the game. I hate the fact that it is going to be automatically assumed that we lost because Samb/Amir played real minutes. The reason we lost is because we had Rip/Flip/Lindsey as our playmakers, and we couldn't get a rebound in the zone D. Speaking of Rip, I am really starting to sour on his selfish mentality out there lately. He has to know that there are better offensive options out there than having him go one-on-one and shoot 20-footers all day.
  9. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    you have a fair point, and i can't disagree with you that our young guys were great and part of the reason we stayed in the game (especially because of their defense through 3 quarters). i was speaking in more general terms, but perhaps in too broad of a manner. :)
  10. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Odom is not playing power forward.

    He is playing the #3

    Turiaf now starts at the #4 and with his absence Cook started last night at the #4.

    The Lakers put Odom back in the #3 slot, which is where he played when he was with the Heat, in order to minimize the hard physical contact against his left shoulder and hence another possible surgery on his left labrum. I believe he has torn his left labrum on at least two occasions that have subsequently required surgery.

    :hoops:
  11. jzchen

    jzchen Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I kinda agree with you here. Maybe it's his first NBA non garbage time game. Like Amir, he needs to improve on his footwork and better positioning. Right now, when he plays, we got to play zone D.

    Anyways, it was still fun to watch him play. I almost got caught watching the game while at work cuz I was smiling happily and almost jump off my chair when both Amir and him took turns to block Bynum on one possession.
  12. max

    max All-Star

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    Guess we can blame it all on Prince then for not camping out under the baskett.
  13. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Odom is a very good player, when he is healthy, just as good as if not better than Tay. His career average is 16 PPG, 9 RPG and 5 APG. All the numbers are higher than Tay's 12 PPG, 4 RPG and 2 APG, in those respective categories. Tay is better defender, but Odom is a better all around player when he is healthy.

    :hoops:
  14. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Agree with Buddha here. The other comparisons are that both can take over a game when needed, but Odom is never passive so he will be that consistent number two scoring option and is never afraid to take it to the hoop. Still getting back into game shape right now, but he was close to a double-double last year in pts and boards. As Buddha says, better defense out of Tay and he avoids injuries. With that being said, Odom might be a better fantasy player though.
  15. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    We got the taped game on local sport channet this afternoon, I love what I saw behind a lost game. The young bloods will bail Flip Sr out if he play them more and play them with a system, priod.
  16. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Why do we have to make separate trips to the West coast to play the Lakers and Clippers at Staples when the Bulls get to play them on back to back nights at Staples?

    :hoops:
  17. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Another team either NY or Indiana did the same thing a coulple of years back it seams, but I recall it Pistons ever playing lakers and Clippers on back to back games since the Clippers came to town some 20 seasons or so ago. It would save on Roundball One's gas, but I guess the players would like to make two visits to la :lalala:land to hang out at the beach, Holloywood, etc.

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