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At Chicago January 19th, 8:30 PM

Discussion in 'January 2008' started by Dlev59, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    Gerald Wallace last night: 28 pts, 7 rebs, 6 assists, 7 steals...Tay will never have a stat game like that. I am officially through with him.....sissy..
     
  2. congoman

    congoman First Round Draft Pick

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    It seems that Flip makes a big point of the fact that the Pistons start standing around and not moving the ball. He says this after the game as if he just noticed it. Why can't he notice it during the game and make the correction?

    Does Flip encourage them to just take jumpers, even though they are not hitting?

    How can he stick with somebody who is obviously not hitting?

    What happened to our fabulous zone?

    When they lack energy like the last two games, why not just shake it up with high energy guys?

    Flip should recognize these things as the game is going on and make adjustments at the time, instead of just complaining about it afterward.
     
  3. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Or the players could make the correction.

    Something tells me Flip does tell them to move the ball during the game. As much as I don't like Flip, I'm pretty sure even he realizes what's going on with the offense.

    But if "good ball movement" is as simplistic as Flip's offense is, this team is in real trouble. Gotta figure out some other ways to score than passing the ball around the perimeter. If Joe D does make a trade, it better for a post presence, unless they're gonna give Amir a shot.
     
  4. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    I understand your complaint but take it into consideration, that in this team ONLY sheed is decent(and just decent, nothing more) post-up player, maxiell can't even hit da rim when posting up and dice is to slow-only results to his post-up tries are turnovers. Only good penetrator is billups, stuckey can't penetrate when defence takes him seriously enough. Hayes is pure shooter, weak defender, afflalo is pure defender, weak shooter. Hermann and Brezec are rental players and AJ abilities -?.

    And when team went into zone everyone in this forum cursed flip.
     
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Yeah, GW is spectacular.

    But consider this.

    In the last 4 years, GW has played in 237 games while Prince has been in 410 (plus the Team USA stuff).

    If you take into account the games that Wallace has missed, I would say that Tay has been the more valuable player.
     
  6. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    if i hear one more player play the tired card on these spoiled=ass 30 yr old millionaires, i'm gonna pull an artest!!! If Tay is so tired, put him on the bench cuz he aint doing crap on the court anyway. anyone else noticed that Tay's demise actually occured when Rip came back?
    We got a weak coach who was weak when he got here and has done nothing to show that he can lead this team through a 'lighted tunnel'!!!
     
  7. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Maybe not exactly like that, but how about this one

    34 points, 12 rebs (4 off), 2 assists, 1 steal

    :stirthepot:
     
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I wasn't arguing that he's tired at all. I was saying that he's durable. I'd rather have Tay at 85% of GW's production level than have Wallace play half the games in a season and be in a suit for the other half. Look at his history.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm pretty sure the Pistons are going to make a move. There is no other way to justify playing Hermann, who is clearly not one of the 12 best players on the team.

    In fact, Brezec is fairly stiff as well, and I think Joe moved Nazr while he could to pick up some valuable expiring contracts specifically for this reason.

    So applying a little bit of twisted logic, we are in fact developing. We're developing our trade assets.

    No offense to anyone here, but I yet have to see a reasonable and plausible reason for why we are not playing well. It's not that we didn't play the kids, and it's not Saunders fault. I don't buy fatigue either.
     
  10. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    This is a team in a slump and the players have to play themselves out of it with the coaches help. That means changes in the line-up at the beginning of the game and giving additional time to the youngsters to develop.

    Flip needs to be put on a "Performance improvement or action plan" to turn this ship around and that includes sitting someone like Tay (who needs the rest ), Sheed or Dice if they are just mailing it in). Joe can grade him at the end of a series of 5 game intervals to see if he is giving the new guys ample playing time to develop and he is keeping the vets mins below 32.

    Our front court issues have been exposed ever since Big Baby scored 20 points on us two weeks ago. (He has played six games since then and has scored a mighty 13 points!!) Herrmman and Brezic are not the answers. It appears than none of the starting front court want to attack the rim settling for jumpers. tay attacks the rim 3-4 times a game, but it takes him to long to set it up. Sheed's turnaround jumper is either right on or off, but he only tries it 2-4 times a game. If Dice gets an offensive board, he tries a layup, but he usually shoots it from where ever he receives which in some instances is 17 feet from the hoop. Both he and Sheed should try going to the basket -(if the coach had the balzz to enforce it) instead the fadeaways. Like someone said last night, we like JMAX intensity, but that dunk is becoming a joke if he is only hitting on it 50% of the time.

    We can always suggest trading to get a better post presence, but Flip didn't know how to use Ben, Nazr or Webber in the post so why bother. Doc appears to know how to use KG, better than Flip did in Minnesota. Can flip convince his players to take high % shots or go to the paint? The jury is still out. At least Rip went in for a couple of layups last night in the throwaway 4th quarter, to stop the drought, but why didn't our starting front court try it?:confused: IMO Flip should have thrown out the white flag at the eight minute mark of the 4th and brought in Amir, Stuck, AA, Hayes and JMAX to see if that unit could get them going and if they did, maybe brought back in CB at the 3-4 minute mark for the crunch time experience, but nope, Flip goes down to the wire with his vets on a hope, wing and prayer that they could pull it out even though they had put up big mins the night before.

    You can't fire a coach whose team is in first place, but somethings gotta give here. Is it possible he can have some surgery that keeps him away for six months?:):sssh:

    Joe I hope you read this...if you did can you PM via text on your BlackBerry to mine to confirm?:heh:
     
  11. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    I'm 110% behind of your post's last paragraph: all those fire flip and swap Prince to Gerald Wallace posts are childish.

    IMO, starters after last season really started doubting, whether they are invincible or not. So they came to this season with fire i.e. to prove.
    Playing with attitude gave desired results: win at Boston and overall 11 game winning streak showed to starters, that they are still invincible. And that was all starters needed to know, and they fell into complacency again. And that's why flip plays starters extended minutes: he tries to "wake up" them. And seems that dumars agreed with that tactic.
     
  12. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    Out of those 410 games played; how many did Tay play like crap?

    I bet Wallace didn`t take any off that he did play in.

    I would take the chance on Wallace as a Piston in a heartbeat!
     
  13. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    It is a player's league (remember Patton). Combine this with gutless GMs and you have inmates running the institution. Electro-shock therapy (in modern fashion) has tremendous benefits and is quite effective.

    JD best get those old fashion paddles ready.
     
  14. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Do we think that maybe we have seen the best of Tay?? I mean has he already peaked?? I know he will be 28 next month and still has 4 years of good basketball in him, but I think he is still tradeable for someone who can give us 18-8 everynight and is not affraid to attack the rim...He has a mean lefthanded dunk, but has he ever learned how to use the backboard for a layup or back a man down with his right hand??? If the Pistons don't push the ball for a fast break you can always find him standing in front the bench waiting to toss a up a three ball.... Tay is a career 14-5 man, Wallace is 2.5 years younger, can play D too and this year is averaging 21.5 and 6, and has scored over 26 points in 5 out of his last six games. (because he penetrates). I am sure there are others out there to we can use......
     
  15. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    Ahh, dreams, dreams. In case of NBA, demand are far ahead of supply and therefore contracts are veeeery player-friendly.GM-s are not gutless, the just have no choice, market dictates prices.
     
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    OK, first of all, is Charlotte going to trade Wallace for Tay? No.

    I'd take Kobe for Rip too. And KG for Sheed. Definitely Duncan over McDyess.

    Just because you can find a player or two better than the one we have doesn't mean that our guy is inadequate. We have a collection of top 50 players with no top 10 players. If you get a top 10 player, you're going to have to pay them a ton of money, and you'll be lacking somewhere else.

    Here what you get from each player over the course of a season:

    Prince- 1,094 pts/ 400 rebs/ 400 ast/ 58 stl/ 59 blck/ 110 TO/ 131 PF
    G Wall- 749 pts/ 348 rebs/ 109 ast/ 103 st/ 72 blk/ 106 TO/ 145 PF

    I just don't think we have it that bad.
     
  17. max

    max All-Star

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    I hope so. I do write that with a heavy heart though as whoever they trade will be missed. But this team could really use a shake up. Not a Flip Murry for a 2nd rounder but actually moving one of the starters.

    Dumars did not make a trade over the summer because he thought getting a bench would help motivate the starters. It worked for a spell but we are back to the same old again.

    Also adding on. Dumars said the Mohammed trade was about freeing up cap space to persue an FA this summer. But for who and where is he going to play? We already have everything locked up with this group.
     
  18. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    I am not saying Charlotte would trade Wallace for Tay. I am saying, I don`t care what the stats over their careers say right now, at this very moment I would take Wallace instead of Prince.

    Period.
     
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I totally disagree. I'd much rather take Lebron than Wallace.
     
  20. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    Very funny.

    How about posting their career stats so we can compare!
     

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