At Chicago Jan 6 8:30PM

Discussion in 'January 2007' started by max, Dec 9, 2006.

  1. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Y'all really think that a Fat underachieving , 3pt shooting, 32 year old power foward can get it done for us???
    Sheed has never been the type of player who got it done because he just plain outworked a player, Sheed is so phenomenally gifted it ain't even funny. There are players in this league and not in this league who work their butts off to try and do what Sheed can do w/out picking up a weight or a ball off the clock. In the past, in his twenties it worked out to him being an all-star, now he's old and slow and fat...if he's not going to work then he's ABSOLUTELY USELESS. Sheed has been getting outplayed by his counterpart on a nightly basis ever since Flip arrived (not that one has anything to do with the other). It's time for him to GO!!!!!!!! BTW if Sheed's contract looked like Nazr's I wouldn't care, but he's the highest paid person on the team and we sacrificed a really good young player in Memo to make that happen. It's time he earned his money and stop floating around the floor.
  2. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    :pound: :pound: :pound: a convert!
  3. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i can't believe how much grabbing the bulls got away with. we couldn't get the ball in the low post because of it, then scrubs like hinrich and nocioni tried to pass them off as offensive fouls.

    with that said, we are screwed without chauncey. flip murray doesn't play defense and his shot is erratic, and he has no idea how to run an effective pick-and-roll. blalock is showing why he's the 60th pick in the draft. he could be a somewhat-serviceable backup, but he definitely needs time in the D-league.

    there's no way the bulls shoot that well every night...they made some ridiculous shots when we were playing good defense. delfino made a couple mistakes but he had a decent game overall, as well as max (despite his free-throw shooting). that put-back dunk with 4 guys going for the rebound was sick. sheed was spirited early but didn't get much of a chance later.

    dunno what else to say really. those early fouls at the beginning of the game killed any and all excitement i had for the rest of it. and i like that the bench plays hard and always plays defense. and rip can't carry this team forever while tayshaun and sheed are struggling. and yeah.
  4. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy First Round Draft Pick

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    Ben,Chicago doesn't matter this was embarrassing. We didn't come to play period. Tay needs to dig himself out of his hole and Sheed needs to take over the post game ankles or not. If they are that bad sit and rest for awhile. Not even going into the rest of what's wrong it's pretty obvious. Show some dam effort.
  5. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Just thinking about it how stupid can the Flip and the Pistons get? You don't have your all nba point gaurd, so you try winning through the gaurds? Rip is great, but we could of won this game if the offense was run by Sheed, and Tay.

    This was a test and the Pistons failed miserably, but at least they showed their flaws. Now is the chance to fix them.

    First off the Pistons will need another veteran PG. Lindsey is great, but that is where this team is weak even with Chauncey. Chauncey won't be able to play 48 minutes a game.

    Sheed and Tay need to get more involved, and more involved inside. It's a mix of play calling and the 2 sucking out there. Come playoff time if these 2 are not constantly getting the ball this team will only get as far as the ECF, if they are really lucky they'll get to the Finals and get blown out.

    I'm not going to make too much out of this game, but it would of been nice if the Pistons did something right.
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Just walked back from the United Center. It was like a playoff atmosphere there. The arena was packed up to the rafters well before tipoff, which is very unusual here. The crowd went crazy for Ben.

    I'm a little irritated still from the way we got manhandled. I'll go drink some beers before I start talking about how bad Flip and Blalock are.

    Sheed wasn't all that lazy this game, but they made it really tough for him inside.
  7. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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  8. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    It's not all the Piston problems... the Bulls play an agressive athletic collapsing defense... they also moved the ball very well and beat us off the dribble on P&R's with regularity.
    Speaking of ball movement... it was at an all time low this game... just a bunch of Iso's which made it easy to double on the ball... The coach has to demand the extra pass or bench time (Maxiell included).
  9. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Pistons should play aggressive too then. If you don't win a game you obviously are doing something wrong.
  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Mohammed had a good scoring game, scoring on a few cuts to the basket, making two outside shots and a couple of free throws. Nothing posting up though. Ben Wallace in contrast scored twice posting up. Defensively, well, where was Mohammed on Chicago's numerous drives to the hoop? Defensive rotations?

    Blalock made some mistakes. But we also got to within 1 point with Blalock in the game in the 2nd quarter. He shortly came out and Chicago went on another run. Defense is part of the game too. I will still take Blalock over Flip Murray, who does not play defense, and whose numerous bad shots far surpassed Blalock's few throwaways. I am glad to see Flip Murray had the courage to take a couple of open outside shots. Too bad he is still in a shooting slump though from distance.

    Delfino made a couple of threes, hustled on D, just his usual fine game. Dyess was off on his shot and did not contribute much else. Dupree got into the game a bit and showed us some speed on a drive inside for a score.

    Amir Johnson got 5 minutes in this one, and gave us a spectacular block to marvel at. Spectacular simply in how high up he got it. I thought for sure that had to be a goal tend, but slow mowing it showed yep, the ball was still on the way up. This was an attempt at a tear drop shot to get over the interior defenders. Better arch it a couple feet higher next time. We did not go to Amir Johnson on offense at all in the 5 minutes. Amir showed up on defensive plays well. (He got to plays)

    Maxiell played well defensively, and scored plenty, nearly getting to his career high of 17. Man can he shoot a fade-a-way. Tonight he showed us the spin back version. In the last few games, we have seen that, a hard stepback version, and a simple jumping back fade-a-way. All went in. Why he is not starting and giving us a post presence is way beyond my understanding.

    Sheed still can't buy a triple, but at least he did not shoot many in this game. He hit some shots closer in, played solid D, but again, covering Mohammed seems to tire him out something fierce. Flip, give Sheed a break and get Mohammed out of the rotation.

    Rip was great early, but was tired late. Something about having a coach clueless in managing minutes. Tay hit some shots, but again, Flip has to learn that if the bench is kicking tail in the 2nd quarter, no, its not time to bring your starters back in to get tuckered out. If the bench is rolling, let them roll. GO PISTONS!!!!!

    More on game:

    I liked that Flip Saunders took out Mohammed and Murray relatively early in the 3rd quarter, but he should have brought in Delfino for Rip when he did so. To me, Flip Saunders is always trying to leave Delfino out for as long as possible. Don't know why. Delfino brough obvious energy to the game, and yet Flip took him out midway thru the 2nd quarter and did not bring him back in when the starters were struggling in the 3rd quarter.

    The game flow went real simple. Our starters were horrible. Our bench was ok, but had to really press in the 2nd half since they were down 16 points when they started coming in. Blalock remember brought us back to withing one point in the 2nd quarter. Thats a lot of pressure to put on a guy late in the game. A small run by Chicago looks awful big when you are down 16 to begin with.

    One more thing. No, Dupree is not the best answer to bring in at small forward if we get Flip Murray out of the rotation. Playing Jason Maxiell there, and bringing Amir Johnson in for power forward minutes is the way to go. Amir Johnson would give us a serious shot blocker. And I bet that before too long, Amir Johnson would not just be firmly in the rotation, but would be starting for us with Mohammed benched.
  11. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Recap:

    Flip Murray: sucked
    Rip: played great
    Tay: sucked
    Sheed: sucked
    Nazr: pretty good
    Dice: sucked
    J Max: average
    Blalock: sucked
    Delfino: average

    That's not going to win you games.
  12. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    I wouldn't say Rip "played great". He was a huge reason why the offense stalled out. He shot 35% and he had 4 TOs. Flip Saunders needs to get the floor spaced properly and Rip needs to get the ball to the open man when he can't get a shot. Just chucking it up there isn't going to work.
  13. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I agree, rip's games have been very deceiving,i do not think he is playing that well. he is missing a lot of open men trying to chuck it up..
  14. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    when all else is failing he will 'chuck' it . 7-20 shooting tonight and planty of forced shots in those losses last week too without CB. How about passing off to an open Sheed or Prince, who on occassion are standing near or in the paint. Of course that is a rare occassion it self... However that play doesn't appear in Flips' playbook..
  15. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I'd rather see Rip force a 17'er than see him kick it out to a forward for a three. Rip has zero confidence in teammates ablities right now and he's forcing but what is the alternative?? Give the ball to a struggling Tay?? A struggling Sheed?? Nazr and Max are the only one's who can understand that on pick and rolls you're supposed to ROLL TOWARDS THE HOOP!!! While Tay, Dyess, and Sheed just stand around the perimeter scratching the space where their cajones used to be [​IMG]
  16. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Hopefully this stinker will lead to a reality check for the effects of selfish play.... I have to say I miss the days under LB where they would make the 4th and 5th pass until they got a good look... not that they scored more but everyone was an equal player and passing was rewarded.

    I firmly believe this team needs an infusion of quickness on defense and someone with a killer first step on the wings.... while we're making a wish list how bout a big that can be counted on inside.
    Fortunately every team in the East has similar issues.
  17. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    KGREG, agree that is the issue within itself. Sheed & Dice have been in the league long enough to understand the P & R, but still as you say ignor it, and Flip can't seam to coach them to play in that system.

    Tay camps out on the 3 and waits for the roc, but is rairly in the paint to receive the pass or there for an offensive board/put back unless he his dribbling/leading the fast break and scores on a dunk himself.
  18. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    100% Correct which is why I have no problem trading Rasheed for Wilcox, or bringing in Corey Mag to make Tayshaun earn his starting spot. With the exception of Rip our starting 5 has had a pitiful time checking their man on defense, everybody's lateral movement on defense is very suspect.
  19. max

    max All-Star

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    So Sheed gets the Bulls fired up with his comments about them not being good enough to be considered a rival and he goes out with that kind of game.

    What happened to the good squad? Give us one little shread of toughness to be happy about and pull it right back again - another DNP for Davis.

    Flip Murry was practically out of the rotation before Billups injury - so why is he starting?

    Dumars needs an intervention. Hopefully something sunk in during this one. The old Dumars never would have stood pat with this team.
  20. chipi

    chipi Second Round Draft Pick

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    I have not watched too many games this season, so take this with a grain of salt. Based on what I saw for the first two and a half quarters (I could not bear to watch it beyond that), it would not have mattered even if everyone out there in the Pistons uniforms were making all of their shots - there was absolutely no ball movement for most of that period. Everyone knows Flip (except for his namesake) has no business being in the game, but even Blalock seemed completely ineffective. Maybe there is really no offensive gameplan for this guys to follow except for isos. And I actually thought Rip was one of the main culprits, trying ridiculously low% shots, with a fair share of TOs. Tayshawn was hanging outside for most of that time, and his body language was more of a spectator than a participant in the offense. He seemed exceptionally passive on the defensive end too. Nazr, Sheed and Dyess all were fairly active on the defensive end in the first half (I thought we had about 10 or so blocks by halftime), but had a hard time keeping up with the younger Bulls forwards, especially as they had negligible offensive roles. The old issues with guard penetration and poor perimeter defense persisted. The Bulls were really moving the ball well, and really active on the defense. In more ways than one, they sort of reminded me of us a couple of years back; and we seem to be be drifting away from that. Replacing specific players will help us mask some of these issuess, but I suspect we have more fundamental issues to sort out.

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