At Charlotte Nov. 3rd, 7:00 PM

Discussion in 'November 2008' started by Dlev59, Nov 2, 2008.

  1. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    That's the only thing I'm really not concerned about, despite the obvious holes displayed in the last few games.
    These guys have already proven they can defend when they played for LB. They were just allowed to slack off a bit. Now that a coach with defense first principles has the reins, I'm sure that will be taken care of one way or another before May.

    For me it's the other end of the floor where I don't feel Curry has proven he can bring anything of substance to the table. Sure he can do what we do and yell "take it down low!" and "move the ball!" every so often, but let's wait and see what happens when the game is on the line and he needs to draw up something that works after multiple timeouts.
  2. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    I don't want you to get me completely wrong here.

    I like alot of what I see from the lineups, but I really think the low man, which just happened to be Aaron, should have/could have gotten more time as well. All that was needed was a slight reduction in starter minutes, obviously those of the three backcourt players that shot less than 50% and turned the ball over far too many times.

    So what would Curry have lost by playing them less and playing his backup 2/3 more?

    IMO, the alternative was that he wasted one of 82 possible opportunities to develop his backup 2/3. How many more times will he have to do this before you get concerned?

    My number is roughly 8-10.
  3. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Cloud, I hesitate to chime in on this, since you seem to be in agreement with me to some extent. As you know, this is a rare thing. Kind of scary actually.

    What we agree on - so far, the minutes of our 4 main stars have not seen significant decrease.

    And, yes, that is a potential problem. For Sheed for sure, at 34 years of age. For Tay for sure, who simply is not built for these minutes on a continual basis. Kind of iffy for Rip, but as he covers more ground per game than any of our other players, it could be a concern. For Billups? He seems pretty durable, does not depend on quicks as much as strength, and probably could handle this level of minutes.

    Now, the other point. Yes, it does matter who plays the backup minutes. Anyone we depend on during the regular season had better be able to play in the playoffs. Last year, I was very concerned about Hayes playing so many minutes due to his lack of defense. I said it would hurt us in the playoffs, and indeed, we ended up simply not having a backup to Tay - that Flip would play anyway. But I never suggested that Herrmann should play instead. Herrmann is slower still than Hayes.

    In a playoff series, teams will not be so kind as not to attack Herrmann every play we have him involved in on defense. If Curry was so silly as to leave him in there for say, three straight games in a playoff series - by that 3rd game the other team would be scoring on us every single time. No more Herrmann, and all the sudden we got the same problem as last year. You think we can then all the sudden throw Afflalo into those minutes - what? Without having him had the benefit of being part of our plays all year? No, if you want Afflalo to play at small forward in the playoffs, start the process now - not when you get to the playoffs and its too late.
  4. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Lee, what do you think about Curry's comments about Herrmann's defense last night? Do you think Curry just doesn't understand good defense?

  5. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's fair. I was surprised when I saw the minutes that Rip played. Let's see what tomorrow's game brings.
  6. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I don't think Curry has the option of not coaching to win. He's made Amir a starter because he thinks he can win now with him. Sure enough Amirs fouls grow and it's time to go to Maxi or Dyess. Let's see what happens.
  7. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    That's not what i'm saying at all. I pointed to Rip's minutes being high, AA's lack of, and to Stuckey's FT lowering his minutes.

    My main problem specifically last year was not the minutes of the starters in the reg season, it was the minutes in the PO's and the subsequent abandonment of the bench as well as the other things i pointed out. I'm not simply looking for 30 minutes across the board for the starters irregardless of who plays, when they play, etc. The whole point is having players ready that can and will contrubute in the PO's, and having the players that are out there giving it their all.

    If Sheed is out there for 30+ minutes and he's playing his you know what off, and him being out there for 30+ minutes looking like he's thinking about what he's going to eat for dinner. Those are two vastly different things. I don't have tunnel vision soley focused on minutes. My criticism of Flip runs far deeper than the "tired" argument.

    When Dyess was a starter Flip clung to him like a security blanket whether he was playing well or not. Do you really think Flip would have ever limited Dyess' min the way they have in the past two games if he was coaching the team? That to me is the most important factor.
  8. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Yes. He did it for two straight years when he was bringing Dice off the bench.

    I can't really rationalize comparing Flips treatment of McDyess the starter to Curry playing McDyess the bench guy when the comparison of how they used McDyess as a bench player is, currently, exactly the same for all intents and purposes.
  9. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Ok how about this; If Flip didn't have Ben Wallace or Chris Webber on the team, and Dyess was coming off the bench behind someone like Amir Johnson, would Flip ever be able to limit his minutes if he was not playing well?
  10. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    But you also stated that your 5 biggest beefs were as such

    Basically you didn't have a problem with regular season minutes that the top 4 guys were playing. You stated this. It was only a problem for you in the playoffs.

    What I see from 3 of your 5 points (the bold-type ones) is that you felt the wrong guys were getting PT, you rationalized this based on your determination of whether they earned more minutes or not with their level of play, and you also felt that they weren't playing at the right times (crunch time minutes).

    Which led me to this conclusion.


    I really don't think that's a stretch, even upon further review. The only point that hasn't been established is that the players that you want to get PT just happen to be your "guys".

    I will admit I reached for that. But in my defense, if your "guys" were getting sufficient PT in your mind, would it have been an issue for you?
  11. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    I'm still trying to figure out the tree falling in the forest with no one around question...I don't want to attempt to tackle this one as well.:reading:
  12. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    But in order to get this you need to limit starter minutes and consistently play guys off the bench.

    Or as my Ace 356 says

  13. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    IIRC, the minutes went up for the top 4 (5?) in the PO's. And as pointed out the reg season minutes stayed in the OK range b/c of our many blowouts.

    -------------

    Yes. If Amir, Max, Arron, etc. were getting the available PT left in the PO's i would still have an issue with the starter's minutes.

    As for the regular season, i don't feel that 30-32 minutes is too high. And if Flip were playing the most productive bench players, and giving everyone a shot to see if they had it going (and i don't mean just the players i prefer), i wouldn't have a problem with those minutes if he was coaching. But Flip's minutes distribution was predicated on the score, who yelled at him the day before, and favoritism.

    I wouldn't mind seeing the minutes come down a little for a player or two but i'm going to reserve judgement right now b/c the positive outweighs the negative and it's only been 2 games.

    edited to add;
    a little OT to my post but
    Pistons eager to see Brown | The Detroit News | detnews.com

    Tell me that does not sound like someone talking about an ex-girlfriend that you desperately want back on the player's part LOL
  14. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i don't see the point of this discussion. why are we judging curry's coaching after TWO games? i'm giving him at least 20-30 before i draw any concrete conclusions...as i did with flip when he 1st got here.

    simple fact of the matter is that we didn't get it done under flip, time to try something new.
  15. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    No one is judging Curry's coaching in it's entirety. I am simply assessing what I see so far and identifying any opportunities for improvement based on what I see.

    This happens when anyone takes a new position, usually after the first week.

    Other than the fact that Curry needs to do things Flip didn't do, and not do things Flip did, this really doesn't have anything to do with Flip.

    For some reason my statement that the top 4 players are playing minutes that are "Flipesque" has drawn numerous hypothetical scenarios that are really neither here nor there. I believe those minutes should be curtailed in the regular season in favor of bench players. All of them, so the best players are given a truly honest shot to rise to the top over the course of an entire season.

    After that I don't care who plays as long as it's the best player for the job.

    But you can't do that when you play guys 3 minutes and 4 minutes while Starter "a" or "b" gets 38+ minutes.

    Who cares if he's got a hot hand?

    Regular season wins or playoff wins? Which one is more important? Okay, then give your bench adequate time, Mr. Curry, lest you make the mistakes of your predecessors.
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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  17. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    Pop.............

    Wow, after leaving Detroit some 25 years ago the word pop is no longer in my vocabulary, however when i first moved here to the DC area I said popfrom time to time and folk looked at me like I was nuts.

    Just good to hear that word from time to time.....
  18. Ozarkruffrider

    Ozarkruffrider First Round Draft Pick

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    Dang, I moved down here to the Ozarks and had to learn 'soda' instead!
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You wanna hear some other words from Detroit area?


    :heh: :swear2: :argue:

    lol
  20. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    In Kentucky, all pops/sodas are referred to as Cokes.

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