At Charlotte Nov. 3rd, 7:00 PM

Discussion in 'November 2008' started by Dlev59, Nov 2, 2008.

  1. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    At Charlotte Nov. 3rd, 7:00 PM

    TV - FS Detroit HD
    Radio - WDFN 1130

    The Pistons begin perhaps their toughest stretch of the season with this game against the Larry Brown led Bobcats.

    J-rich and Gerald Wallace may present some problems for the Pistons up and down defense.

    However, the Pistons depth may leave LBJ shaking his head!!
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    LB time. Amazing.
  3. Pistons Lover

    Pistons Lover First Round Draft Pick

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    I'll be happy to see LB. I miss his faces and his loud voice being heard over Blaha's lol
  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    With any luck Danny Crawford will be working this game. He won't know who to screw with Sheed and LB on different sides.
  5. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Cloud's Pregame notes-

    OFFENSE-I'm not liking the offense thus far. It sure looks good when shots are falling but in the long run it's too many jumpers and too many Cola-style pump fakes. The team built up a pretty big lead simply because their "junk" happened to be falling early, unfortunately, their ball handling and subsequent transition defense was not good enough to keep Washington from catching up.

    STARTERS MINUTES- Minutes for our top 4 guys are still pretty "Flipesque".
    Bad Coach. Bad.
    I will try to stay in the realm of the purely statistical and point out that last year our top 4 averaged minutes like so:

    Chauncey- 32.3 min.
    Rip- 33.7 min
    Tayshaun- 32.9 min
    Rasheed- 30.5 min

    I feel the need to reiterate that I am looking for the same thing that has been harped on by members of the forum for years. I want to see these four guys play less minutes and the younger guys play more than they did under Flip Saunders.

    There's where my problem is however. If these guys are getting more than last years averages in games then it really doesn't matter what kind of platooning MC incorporates or how many players show up in the boxscore. The bottom line is MC is not creating more minutes for the likes of Aaron Afflalo and Rodney Stuckey thus far. He is simply waving his hands like David Copperfield while the four starters get more of the same and the casual fans fall for his rotational prestidigitation.

    Take last night for example.

    If Rasheed, Billups, Prince, and Hamilton would have been limited to the 32 minutes range Aaron Afflalo would have played a total of 16 minutes on the floor (in reality he only played 4), and last night would have been more successful in the long run in my eyes, win or lose.

    Hopefully this will even itself out, but it needs to happen sooner rather than later. 10 games in and the season will already be 1/8th of the way over. If this trend doesn't get rectified by then I will be more than just slightly concerned.
  6. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    The MAJOR difference between Flip and MC is that Hermann under Flip never would've gotten off the bench and he would've played the entire 4th quarter over Flip's dead body.

    Amir NEVER would have been a starter under Flip. And if Amir got 3 fouls in the 1st quarter, he would have been benched for the season. Dice would still be averaging 30 min. KB probably would have played a total of 1 min in all of the games. Stuckey would probably see the doghouse with all the turnovers he's been committing, and Aaron would just go back to UCLA to hang out. It's not like Flip would notice anyway.

    I'm not completely happy with the rotations specifically the odd 2nd quarter ones, but to say Curry is Flipesque is BS. Stuckey hasn't been able to get out of his own way so far, and Amir was in extensive FT last game.

    AA deserves way more minutes and Rip's need to be cut down. But if a player is playing well, he's going to play. Curry is going to give the player a chance to see if it's his night, and that is a refreshing change.

    edited to add;

    Oh and about the game LOL . . . i think it will be close, but we'll lose. Although the possibility of Hermann going nuts against his old team might pull out a win.
  7. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Then where were all the minutes going when Flip was playing the top 4 less than they have played in the last two games?

    By the way, I said the minutes were "Flipesque"

    You are definitely misquoting me.

    If anything I think MC is Colaesque. They are bosom buddies, and share many on-court views.
  8. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    It appears some folks may be satisfied as long as "their guy" gets PT even if the 4 main starters minutes aren't reduced, or even if they rise.

    I'm not so easily bought. I could care less who gets off the bench first as long as the bench minutes rise at the expense of the 4 guys that are supposedly tired and worn out come playoff time.

    Placing Amir in the starting lineup rather than reducing those aforementioned minutes does nothing to placate me, even if it works for the fans at large.
  9. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Your right. I should have clarified. The statement i was taking issue with was this;
    There is a huge difference b/w the way Flip played the young guys and the way MC is. Stuckey/Amir's minutes are fluctuating right now b/c of fouls. There is no 5th starter taking up all the big minutes anymore. Dyess has been sucky and accordingly hasn't played that much.
    There were 5 major problems last year in terms of min;

    The starters PO minutes

    The bench's sporadic minute distribution regardless of level of play

    A clock-work sub pattern; also the incessant need to put the starters in

    The wrong guys getting minutes off the bench

    And the bench not getting crunch time minutes

    In fact, most ppl started mocking the tired theory, and were stuck on the fact that Flip's sub patters were erratic and generally stupid.

    As far as i'm concerned Curry has come a long way in rectifying the above problems. And i don't think a majority of poeple ever thought the top 4's minutes would dip below 30 and generally be stuck in the in the range that they are now. The only person whose minutes should be cut are Rip's. Billups i believe has played more b/c of Stuckey's foul problems. But the major bonus point is that Curry will stick with the players that are playing well.

    edited to add; the who that is playing on the bench is just as important as the how many. Just ask Jarvis Hayes/Walter Hermann
  10. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Basically you really don't care if the total allocated minutes remains the same or even gets skewed in favor of the top four players in contrast to last years minutes as long as your "guys" are the ones getting PT.

    That's cool, I'm simply saying that it won't cut the mustard for me.
  11. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Firstly there was a reason I did not originally bold text half of my statement. They are two parts to a greater whole that cannot statistically be achieved without the other considering that I use the phrase "younger guys" to classify our bench as a whole, since besides Dyess that is entirely what the bench is comprised of, but when it comes down to it once again I have no particular affinity for who gets up as long as starter minutes are reduced in real numbers during the regular season.

    Secondly, Mcdyess averaged 21 minutes per game in the two years Saunders brought him off the bench. In two games under Curry he is getting 19. I'm surprised you see such a glaring difference in minutes played. When putting the two scenarios in the same context I do not.
  12. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    we can't compare numbers from this year to last year folks.... our starters mins were brought down by the number of blow outs that they played zero mins in the 4th quarter... two games..... two games.... we can take nothing from that for the number of mins that our starters are going to average this year....

    what i have taken is that doesn't seem to be as fast when there is a hint of danger to rush the starters back into the game, we seem to be letting the bench players get a chance to play thru it... but again only 2 games, so its way to early to decide one way or the other how its going to be this year.
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    To me, the O is way better. They get much better movement and shots. Having multiple people handling the ball has paid dividends so far. Their D has been bad.

    The minutes thing from years past was part BS. Where it was an issue was because Flip could only play the starters or play the bench. There was no crossing of the 2. The starters sat if the lead was big or the starters played if it wasn't. They didn't have a big line-up or a small line-up, they had Sheed, Dyess, Max, CB, Rip, Tay and Stuckey. It hurt DET when the starters sat because their O went stagnant. It was only meant for them. I'm fine with the minutes played so far and do not think it will be an issue at all.

    They played 11 guys both games and the games were not decided until late. Did that ever happen with Flip? I find myself checking the scorer's table out of habit expecting to see Sheed or CB parked out there waiting to come back in.
  14. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Boy are we seeing opposite things on offense then.

    What I see is more turnovers and falling away three pointers combined with fortunate bounces late in the shot clock against teams that haven't even gotten over their summer conditioning.
  15. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    It was quite easy to find, as I only needed to go to the second game of last year to find the first instance.

    This is part of the reason I believe opinions are being formed contrary to statistical evidence and based solely on each individual fans feeling for the players that minutes are being distributed to.

    I laugh so hard I want to cry when a supposed tremendous drop in defense is "noticed" after a guy gets his third foul and gets taken out of the game.

    Heck yes our defense suffered. Every teams defense suffers when they are in the penalty. That supposed "defensive stalwart" was the one that put us there.

    What a rock he must be.

    I see it now....
  16. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Turnovers are way up.... i hate comparing two game stats but here it goes.... 15.5 up from 11.1, but were going to get more turnovers with more people handling the ball. But come playoffs maybe the offense won't turn off when they force the ball out of the PG's hands.

    to your other points the stats (and i hate two game stats) don't agree....

    our FG's are up from 79.9 to 85 while the number of 3's were taking is actually down to 13.5 from 16.2 last year. I like that number and hope it continues. I'll also take the percent were shooting them at right now up almost 8 percent from last year... 44.4 percent this year to 36.6 last.
  17. max

    max All-Star

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    I tought Flip did a great job managing the bench until the playoffs started. To make matters worse Hunter and Ratliff were promoted as top bench guys when they had not played with the team all year. The team that faced Boston was not the same team that won 59 games.
  18. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    I said I see more turnovers. I didn't say I saw more three pointers, just too many of them, and bad ones at that plenty of times.

    Then again, upon looking at my very first post in this thread, I didn't even say that.

    As far as the FG% is concerned I think we are getting lucky. Not only with shots going in but with near turnovers not being committed.

    No one has yet addressed Stuckey's new propensity to pull an Arroyo with the ball, or this new wrinkle of perimeter pump faking that has increased lately.

    I guess those birds will come out when we actually face a playoff roster.
  19. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think the TO's will drop. I don't think they'll be as low as the last few years, but that will be a good thing. The low TO rates served to kill the offense. The may have a few more, but the gain will far outweigh the minimal loss. No matter who the blame is on, the Pistons lost the last few years because they could not swing the ball to the other side of the floor. They couldn't do this most of the time because the shot clock worked against them.

    DET is still shooting from outside, but they are closer shots reminiscent of the Jesus era.
  20. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Right, but what was the score of that game? It wasn't close. It looks like DET will be more fluid, having interchangeable parts this year. That to me is a good thing. Players, like Lindsey Hunter, tended to take the blame and they may have deserved some, but I think it was the designed offense that did not allow everyone a chance to succeed. I don't need to see the finished product now, but I want (and do see) hope for success as the season builds. I'm more concerned with the D.

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