At Charlotte Bobcats Dec. 13th, 7:00 PM

Discussion in 'December 2008' started by Dlev59, Dec 8, 2008.

  1. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    I was an avid supporter of Flip Saunders while he was here. The team played very predictable during his tenure, to the point of being knocked out each of his years after the 10th postseason victory. I was pleased to know that I would be getting consistently good basketball (record wise) during the regular season, and I was happy to blame the players mostly for the playoff losses. But, I am also pleased that Curry is tinkering with the lineup. He is trying a lot of different things (much of it ugly, so far) and maybe we'll be better in the playoffs because of it. I am going to remain hopeful for the playoffs ( I predicted a 2nd round knockout) and allow the season to continue as is. (I predicted 44-38 - I think). Joe Dumars wanted something different and to me, he got his wish. Wether Amir plays or not. Wether AI fits or not. Hopefully all of this stuff irons itself by playoff time. The only things I do know is that OLD SKOOL only critized the statement and not the person, and Roscoe works tirelessly to allow us this opportunity to disagree.
     
  2. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    lol -- you get to run the Forum for a week! wtg!!

    :lecturer:
     
  3. adonis

    adonis First Round Draft Pick

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    it is ok for Curry to try all different combinations. But come playoff time, we should not be 7th or 8th seeded. Other wise, we will be facing Cavs or the Celtics in the first round. That would be ugly.
     
  4. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Good point. But if we go in not battle tested, we'll lose to em anyways.
    I'd rather catch them as a surprise team this season in the first round. If we're jellin, then championship we'll be smellin.
     
  5. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    I hope MC will turn out to be a decent coach, right now he has an almost Maranelli quality to him. How could they give up a 25pt lead and let Granger drop 42 on them? I am not as disturbed about the record as I am about the play. Where is the promise of defense, sound fundamentals and team play? I was always nervous about his hire, was hoping for JVG or maybe Laimbs.

    Plus Joe keeps wasting money on players like Hermann, Bynum, Nazi etc. Memo to Joe, if you can't find the player you want then stop locking up money on bad investments.
     
  6. explosivity

    explosivity First Round Draft Pick

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    IDK, I may be in the minority but I hope Curry keeps playing the bench in high pressure situations otherwise how are they supposed to learn. He and Joe are trying to find players on the bench who are reliable and are able to perform when the game is on the line. You cannot find that out if they are always on the bench in those scenarios. I totally agree in what he said in his quote "i shouldn't have to bring the starters back in we were up 25."
    Contrary to popular belief the guys who "need" to be playing better are playing better and Tay will make the adjustment at the 4 before you know it. Has anyone noticed that we are a team in transition trying to find our identity and a true rotation. Some of these games may be ugly however we will be much better come playoff time because of it and thats all that matters. I trust in Mc. You guys wanted the young guys and bench to play and that's what he's done. For those of you who want to bring up the fact Amir/Kwame/Maxeill havent played much in the past 3 games, Amir has played the most ball in these first 20 than in all of his other years combined. Under Flip, Kwame would have never gotten of the bench and you can trust that. Maxeill just suffered a couple of DNPs no big deal in the grand scheme of things really in my opinion. I trust in MC and you should too.
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    :rofl: :rofl:
     
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You can't see that the Pistons can't win a championship.

    We got so many swamis and oracles on this forum, we're going into psychic overload.
     
  9. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Just finished watching the game, curry is not a good coach at this point...he has no feel for the....when the lead was 13, you could feel the momemtum change...that is when a starter or five should have been put back in the game; also he is very professionallly immature; it seems as though he never wants his moves questioned; he acts like a child; not good;
     
  10. explosivity

    explosivity First Round Draft Pick

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    He wanted to see how they would respond and if they could play through it. Just my opinion though.
     
  11. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Unfortunately, i agree with this. There are times during the game where you can clearly see what line-up is not working or what player doesn't have it, and i'm constantly looking at the scorer's table to see a sub, and no one. It's not just that he lets it go on, it's that he lets it go on for about 7 min, and then puts the same lineup/players out there in the second half. And it's also not just the bench players, he tends to do this with the starters as well.

    He might be all bark and no bite.

    Some clarification on the Knicks game; so apparently Curry blames both KB and Amir for Duhon scoring on AI. I don't understand how when everyone's playing awful, and you throw the bench in with a huge deficit you're going to be so judgemental. The starters were far more guilty yet they escape criticism and he's scapegoating fringe rotation players.

    DETNEWS | Weblog | Pistons Blog

     
  12. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I don't think it was Curry's fault, but I think he fell into a common coaching trap, one that Flip never climbed out of. It's the old "they're doing so good, I'm going to skip my usual third quarter subs and just let them go for a little while." The result is that combinations that don't often have to play together do so, and if the other teams steps up the energy, look out because the starters have now played 14 minutes in a row. I doubt Charlotte would have made it anywhere near as close as they did if a couple of starters had some out in the third, enabling the bench guys to share in that flow.

    One unrelated thing that struck me from the first half is just how strong Okafer is. Sheed got the ball in the post (it's the play where he made the sweeping hook), took a dribble and backed into Okafer, took another and backed into him again - and didn't move him an inch. Sheed just bounced off him, forcing him to roll into the lane rather than what he usually does. That's a strong guy.
     
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Bingo!

    Curry also changed when they had the lead, not just the players. He was guilty of being over-confident and thinking the game was in the bag because they had a big lead. It probably would not have killed the Pistons to play to the 7:00 remaining mark of the 4th like they still cared.

    At one point, I thought we would hold them under 70. But that was back when Pistons teams (and their coaches) had pride in the regular season, pride that carried over.

    I'm happy to get the W, but not with how it was executed.

    Curry as well as the players need to learn how to put their boot on the opponent's face, and then grind dirt into their teeth.
     
  14. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I think it was Low? (sorry if i am wrong here sir) that a few years ago said its all about the championships.... there is one winner and everybody else is a loser.

    Does it really matter if we lose in round 1 or in the ECF's if we lose we lose... Were going to have to beat either the Cav's or Celtics or maybe both.... so maybe playing one in the first round won't be all that bad.

    Its also really early, and I still like our chances at having the 3rd best record in the East.
     
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Actually, we were doing just fine up until the 8 minute mark. Just so happens that is when Herrmann came into the game, with us still having a 22 point lead. Herrmann left 4 minutes later with the lead down to single digits.

    Now, in rewatching the game, yes, Herrmann did miss three shots, and Herrmann sure enough never even got to a single defensive play or a rebound. However, we had about 6 turns in those 4 minutes, none of them Herrmann's fault. He certainly did not help in any way, but collectively, the rest of the Pistons were being quite sloppy with the ball.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    So if I am reading that right, you are finally willing to admit that correlation = causation is a logical fallacy?
     
  17. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    man this place is depressing. i think i'm watching different games than all of you. instead of being encouraged that the new starting lineup is building big leads, or that stuckey looks great at the point, or that rip is out of his slump, or that AI is starting to fit in, or that we only gave up 58 points through 3 quarters and looked solid defensively, people are blaming curry for the bench being unable to hold the lead in the 4th. c'mon, seriously?

    if flip was here he would've kept the starters in until there were 3 minutes left and people would have complained. instead of giving curry a pass for experimenting and playing bench guys for extended stretches (which most people called for...sacrificing wins/blowouts to see what our guys are made of), he's being treated like he doesn't know the difference between basketball and football. let's get some perspective here people.

    you can't have it both ways. you can't make a huge trade and change coaches and major pieces of your team while also having them immediately gel and win every game by 50 points with superior defense and scoring 120 points a game. boston and cleveland and LA are winning like we were doing in the flip era...but that didn't get us a championship now did it?

    i've been encouraged and having fun watching these games. i much more enjoy lee's recaps which look at both the positive and the negative. what i won't do is flip out over a win in december where we annihilated the other team but gave the lead back because the bench played poorly.
     
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    Nice post.
     
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Here is a sort of useful stat. It uses +/- data, but for a different reason.

    It tells you what %age of games, each player has a positive +/-.

    AA- 73.7%
    AJ/ Sheed- 61.1%
    Tay- 52.6%
    AI/ Stuck- 50.0%
    Kwame- 47.4%
    Herrmann- 46.7%
    Bynum- 41.7%
    Maxiell- 38.9%
    Rip- 33.3%

    So, if you're thinking to yourself, every time we put Herrmann in, we do terribly, these numbers will allow you to realize that is not technically true.
     
  20. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Not really. I still don't like to see a player out there doing absolutely nothing. Each other player out there made mistakes, just as serious as missing a few shots, but the rest of them all contributed positives too.

    I could go on and on, but I will just mention Bynum. Two nice drives in, which he missed, but which allowed Jason Maxiell to collect a slam back off the 2nd miss.

    If someone wants to support Herrmann, they should find something positive he did out there, and let us all know.
     

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