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At Boston Nov 20 8PM

Discussion in 'November 2008' started by max, Nov 15, 2008.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Think of how much better a jump shooting team we were with:

    CB- Mr. Big Shot
    Rip- best mid range shooter in the game
    Tay
    Dyess
    Sheed- most talented player in the universe

    than we are with:

    AI
    Bizarro Rip
    Tay
    Designated hustle player
    Sheed- SC- shooting center
     
  2. Menace

    Menace Bench Warmer

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    Haven't seen the game but looking at the responces i haven't missed a bit.
    My look at the game though:
    Boston are NBA champs + Game played at Boston's homecourt + BtoB for Pistons, Celtics had a rest + Pistons chemistry plus defence is still being worked on = loss

    The Pistons won in LA just cause they played a great game, not because they are a great team (atm).
    I don't realy care how they do these first 2 months but they need to do better once feb/march arrives.

    PS. i watched the 2003/2004 championship video again and did you know the Piston were 16-13 after 29 games at the start of the 2003/2004 season but still managed to win the championship.
    So there is still hope ;)
     
  3. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    I don't care if it was back to back games for the Pistons. This was a chance to make a statement that they can hang w/ the Big Dog and the Pistons were manhandled. Part of it is AI getting incoporated w/ this team, the other part is that our bench is not as good as Boston's. We seem to get slapped around by their 2nd stringers. Stuck is what he is, a role player. Wasn't he supposed to breakout this season?

    There doesn't seem to be anyone on that bench that looks like a future steal, AA will probably be the most consistent of that bunch. Without another significant trade to shore up the bench, this team is not going deep. The talent is not consistent enough on a nightly basis. And yes, we need Dice back. Hope Joe was watching, need a big body.
     
  4. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    First Boston game...
    DTW Starters - 53 points / Bench 23
    BOS Starters - 45 points / Bench 43

    Last night...
    DTW Starters - 51 points / Bench 29
    BOS Starters - 56 points / Bench 42

    Across two games the Boston starters have outscored the Pistons starters by 1.5 points per game.

    The Boston bench has outscored the Detroit bench by 16.5 points per game
     
  5. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    This team does not look like it can win one game against BOS, and it doesn't even look like it can compete. AI is an absolute liability against BOS. He can't guard any of their perimeters, and you can't keep him on Rondo. His scoring is irrelevant b/c he's not getting into the paint, and giving up twice as much. Last night i saw bad AI; he was putting his teammates in awful positions in terms of over-dribbling and throwing the ball to people in bad positions. In fact our whole team didn't look like they knew what they were running and just kept dribbling into the paint, getting stopped, tossing it to someone else and repeating the same thing.

    For all Tay's good games it's hard to count on him b/c he can be easily shut down against LBJ/Pierce or our offense. This new role of him initiating all the time is taking him out of the offense.

    BOS is a team that we desperately miss CB against. You need a cohesive unit and a PG to execute a game plan against them. You can't win "free-styling". We couldn't force them into turnovers after the 1st, and their halfcourt defense is too tough. AI isn't a halfcourt player and thus looks even worse. We can't knockdown outside shots b/c we've went from having too many shooters to not enough. And since Rip scores off specific plays and passes that we don't/can't execute anymore he's struggling and pretty useless off the drible or "creating".

    We were better against BOS with CB, and i know people say "last year', but if anyone noticed Chauncey was playing pretty inspired here before he left too, and getting/driving into the paint like i haven't seen him do in years. He's been having multiple 10 or so FT games.

    That game last night was disheartening. With our old team, we didn't look that far off if at all IMO. We were not weak at guard. We needed someone to bang with Perkins, and KB showed he can do that. It's not unfair to say with the new inspired Sheed,CB,KB, Dice and Curry's use of the bench specifically Arron's perimeter defense we could have beaten them.

    With this new team there's an ocean between us and BOS, and it doesn't look like a fixable one.

    And if we can't beat BOS, then really what are we playing for ?

    edited to add;

    Stuckey isn't ready. And unfortunately, this season is proving it. I really think Joe drank too much kool-aid after last year's PO's.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    lpgrl, CB wasn't the difference. The defense was totally disorganized and overmatched. Boston is playing with the reckless abandon and swagger of a champ.

    Most of our young pups are all yap, but little bite. Amir has been a washout. Stuckey has a really low bball IQ for a PG. Compound that with the Pistons forcing AI to play differently (and he was, they keep taking the darn ball out of his hands!) and making Tay the playmaker.

    Tay is a great playmaker in a fast game, because he brings halfcourt balance.

    Against Boston, Tay just kills clock and stalls the offense. The guy with the ball MUST be able to get his own shot. That was neither Stuckey nor Tay.

    Chauncey led memorable collapses against Boston last year. How quickly you seem to forget that they beat us handily twice in the season, and we beat them on luck free throws once.

    And except beating them soundly in Game 1 of the ECF, they gave us a sound beating 4 of the remaining 5 games. Remember, Chauncey couldn't stop Rondo either.
     
  7. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    It's not CB being the answer by himself. It's CB putting everyone back into their natural roles. With Chauncey, Stuckey goes back to being the change of pace driving energy guard off the bench; Rip goes back to being Rip, etc.

    Chauncey doesn't have to guard Rondo; he can guard Allen. Curry is not Flip, and he's not afraid to switch people around and he won't hesitate to put AA in if Rondo is torching us. He will also leave the lineups that are hot in and the players that are playing the best.

    These games are not even close. You can point to last year, but we were not only competitive, we won two games convincingly, and in Game 5 when we were getting hammered the way we were last night, we came back and IIRC cut it to 3. We didn't lie down and take it.

    I feel like Flip's stubbornness and sub patterns/coaching hindered us tremendously. And with those reins off this had a very good chance to beat BOS, but unfortunately we didn't get to see them play this year.

    You can't ignore the fact that DEN went into BOS last year and got killed by like 43 pts. They went into BOS this year and beat them; and it wasn't a "lucky" win. Of interest CB did guard Rondo in that game and he was 1-8. That Denver team is not much different from last year.

    I'm not trying to annoint CB, the BOS stopper, but it was obvious we were a better team pre-trade than post. I don't hate AI. In fact, i've come to like alot of things about him. We just have 0 chance to beat BOS with him, and that's a hard pill to swallow.
     
  8. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    according to lpgrl complaints, pistons is not able to beat anybody.
     
  9. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Yes. That's exactly what i said.
     
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ok, let's hold on here. 43 points?

    Denver Nuggets at Boston Celtics Box Score, November 7, 2007 - Basketball-Reference.com

    Boston Celtics at Denver Nuggets Box Score, February 19, 2008 - Basketball-Reference.com

    Second of all, we didn't beat Boston at home once during the regular season with two shots last year. Denver took care of business at home.

    The lesson I draw from those two box scores, is that AI should be playing off guard against Boston.


    You're presuming someone else doesn't beat them first. :)
     
  11. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    23,43, same thing LOL. My addition aside they won. Although in my defense i turned that game off after half-time when BOS was up almost 40. And i'll just ignore the home game LOL. I don't know how often you're going to beat BOS giving up 118 and being able to outscore them, but point taken.

    See what i got from that box score is Rondo will continute to light him up. But maybe AI at off guard on Ray Allen is worth a shot.

    In order for that to happen the Pistons must win the central division then pray for CLE/ATL to knock them off.
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    :)

    We got lots of time to figure some things out.

    I was just terribly disappointed with the dejected look on AI's face, and Tay's inability to play aggressive when the Pistons are getting hammered.
     
  13. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Are we trying to go with more of a "set-up" offense since AI got here? Seems like we are trying to run more sets rather then beat people up and down the floor. We subbed out KB for Amir which makes us slower. Tay is running the point which makes us slower. Stuck is walking the ball up the floor instead of racing it up.

    Are we trying to get AI acclimated to our sets first and then slowly increase the speed or are we going backwards.
     
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    4 points is actually a pretty good outing for Tay against BOS. He was making Pierce work to score though. There was one play where Pierce had to slightly veer off his straight line path to the hoop for a lay-up.
     
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The problem is that people know they can beat Tay's length with power.

    He never got big enough to push anyone around, and he's still too thin to take a beating.

    Which is the problem with Paperthin (Amir) as well. It's great these guys can jump out of the gym, but if they can't handle playing in the paint with big guys, they are screwed.

    I think it is insincere at this point to keep insisting that CB would save us and the trade is the issue. Oh how quickly some of us forget Chauncey falling down for no reason.

    All though I don't really believe it, I want to tell myself that the Pistons just aren't showing everything to Boston to win some regular season games, and that they are holding back. Letting the bullies tire themselves out.

    Obviously, the fluoride in the water is giving me brain damage.
     
  16. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    Pistons don't have the horses to match up Boston upfront over the course of a game. Without another skilled PF/big man, in addition to Dice (hopefully) they can't beat them in a series. Their bigs clog up the paint and draw fouls. Pistons didn't have crisp ball movement and didn't move the ball quick enough up court to create small ball havoc before the defense sets in. The size wears them down.
     
  17. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    "holding back" isn't probably the right term. "trying but not knowing exactly how" is more precise, I think.

    MC has given totally new instructions to players who were so accustomed with their previous roles ; and AI trade blew even those orders.
     
  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Is there a retired big man out there who is about 28 years old with post moves and some range on his jumper?
     
  19. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  20. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Yup, it doesn't feel good to know that 9 of the 13 guys on the team got the nickname "paper thin".

    Dyess coming back puts Maxey down to 4th on the beef chart and that will help. (Dyess is about to make the imaginary Hall of Fame soon.)

    Their problems aren't all beef though. I can't remember when this was, but it might have been the 2nd or 3rd qtr and Tay had the ball up top on O. TGRH was to his left on the strong side and it looked like a good time to pass it right. Tay went to The Griever on the baseline who dribbled in to the D, stopped upfaked and actually did score. It was like pulling teeth though. I don't know why they have such a hard time
    with it
     

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