At Atlanta March 7th, 7:00 PM

Discussion in 'March 2009' started by Dlev59, Mar 2, 2009.

  1. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,444
    Likes Received:
    443
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Curry has said something to that effect in his post-games. If you notice during some of the games when Amir makes a mistake and Currys reaction. Its a mistake because Amir is not getting some of the plays right.

    I think Amir wanted to play in college but had too many problems getting in.
     
  2. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Brooklyn New York
    There are many people in this world with different types of learning disabilities. Amir may be one of them. He obviously have physical gifts, but that can only get you so far in professional sports.
     
  3. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,444
    Likes Received:
    443
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Here is something about his pre-draft status.

    Scout.com: Pitino expects Johnson at UofL if eligible
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,756
    Likes Received:
    2,606
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I think back in the day, you could get exceptionally lucky in the draft, guys like Dumars and Rodman went later than they deserved to go because teams didn't have the resources to scout them as well as they do today.

    Rodman in particular was overlooked, but the Pistons sent Mike Abdenour to check him out (in the old days, people did everything, Tom Wilson would unload trucks of basketballs as an executive).

    A guy like Amir goes 56th because he has a lot of upside, but there are issues as well. Same thing with Acker going 60th. There were several criticisms of his attitude, much less criticism of his game (when he's on, he's on).

    Going back and reading the Ivory Tower article in the Episode 6 podshow thread, I'm struck by how most fans probably were completely unaware of Stackhouse's practice habits and what it could mean to the team.

    There are a lot of nuances we are not privy to.
     
  5. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,444
    Likes Received:
    443
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Yes I caught that article - thanks for posting that.

    I wonder how much of Amir's hype is hurting him. I have heard him reference being a "future all-star" before and he just seems to forget that he was the 56th pick in the draft.

    Dumars is so much better than the previous GM Rick Sund but when Sund made a pick there were no illusions on what we were getting. He did not feel the need to glorify every move he made so when guys like Don Reid and Brian Cardinal were picked late in the draft they knew they would have to work for every min they got.

    Could be nothing but it just seems that Amir is perhaps putting too much stock in his own hype and that could be hurting his progress.
     
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,727
    Likes Received:
    3,070
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    How has any of this gone to Amir's head?

    This is the guy who requested to stay in the D-leage longer than the team wanted him there. Has he been complaining or something?
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,756
    Likes Received:
    2,606
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I had forgotten that the LA Times had made him California's baller of the year or something.

    Expectations always seem to exceed results, both on upward and downward trajectories. We seem to perceive things as being much better or much worse than they really are.
     
  8. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,503
    Likes Received:
    645
    Location:
    Flint
    I see Amir make lots of mistakes.

    But I see Amir constantly do stuff well, so well in fact, that no other player on the team even comes close.

    The overall result: The Pistons have scored 54 more points than the other team has while Amir has been on the floor this season.

    Compare that to Dyess, where the other team has scored 82 points more than the Pistons this season with him on the floor.

    How about win percentage. Amir at 54%, Dyess at 37%

    More details - Except when paired with Dyess, Amir shows positive numbers when paired with anyone else. In other words, if Dyess was not on the team, Amir would be apparently getting positive numbers, in other words we score more than the other team when he is on the floor, regardless of who he is paired with.

    Dyess - negative numbers paired with all players except Sheed.

    Dyess may be smart, but he can't move laterally. Not even a little bit, and all teams know it, and do not in general respect him as a defender around the basket. (In other words, when they run their plays, they run them right thru the area that Dyess is supposedly covering - knowing he can't actually move to that area.)

    So you got your choice. A old guy who can't play very effectively anymore, or a young guy very fleet of foot, who makes mistakes, but continually plays winning basketball. (Except of course when paired with Dyess. One can only do so much.)
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,756
    Likes Received:
    2,606
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I believe TaS has indicated that Max plays winning ball with McDyess.

    I'm sorta in agreement with you Lee, except again it's the trend towards absolutes that I can't get down with.

    I think if you gave Cleveland, Boston and LA the choice of McDyess or Amir with their current contract status (Amir will have Bird Rights) it is highly unlikely they would take Amir right now, unless they were betting on 2 or 3 years down the line.

    McDyess is aging, but he is still a man in the paint, and fantastic on the boards. He has a jumper Max and Amir would kill for. And while his body is slowing, his heart is very strong. He could be the most competitive player on the team.

    I like Dyess off the bench, and I think starting him is a mistake. But given how our bench doesn't have much quality depth (hat tip LaPiston) at the bigs, he's still one of our best players.

    His +s outweigh his -s.

    Which might also be true of Amir. :P
     
  10. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4,479
    Likes Received:
    755
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    just cuz we're playing good 'now', does not change my feelings about this team, this coach or this season.

    Even though a good rain is good for some, for ME it just dirties up my SUV!!!!
     
  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,503
    Likes Received:
    645
    Location:
    Flint
    On Max / Dyess, nope, its a loser. Go look for yourself.

    Dyess off the bench would work, if Dyess was kept to 14 minutes, and we did not put him in critical situations like at the end of a game - where his lack of defense really is not something you can make up for. At crunch time, you should be making the other team earn buckets, not be giving them gold plated invitations to waltz down the lane and score on us.

    People really ought to do what I do, save film from earlier in the season. Then they would see what I see - A Dyess fresh back then, vs. one dogged out now. Maybe you can still remember? Playing Dyess too much is a mistake.

    As for would Boston take Dyess or Amir? Dyess is a very valuable player - if used right. Used wrong - he just causes losses.
     
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,727
    Likes Received:
    3,070
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    For some reason, Maxiell's numbers are negative with every single player on the team, except for when he's with Amir or Kwame, but those are somewhat limited sample sizes of 91 min and 86 min respectively (not enough to go by).

    With Dyess, it really has been pretty bad.

    336 minutes (= 34 stints averaging 10 minutes each).
    -48 points, or -6.8 per 48 minutes.

    If you look at it stint by stint, they have won 13 and lost 21 (38%).

    Maxiell is even worse with Sheed though (per minute). The only 3 players who are in the negative with Sheed: Maxiell at -43, Kwame at -35, and Herrmann at -18.

    Here's the link. The grid on top summarizes it and there is player by player detail below.
    Detroit Pistons NBA player pair tandem stats and data from 82games.com

    I'm actually baffled by Maxiell's results. I've been aware of it all last year and this year, but he is the only player on the team where I feel like he looks way better than these numbers indicate. I'm sort of leaning toward the theory that his production is unusually spectacular looking (dunks and blocked shots stick in your mind) and his defense is damaged by his physique. And I don't think it is help defense, I think that he's just not affecting shots the same way a taller player affects shots.

    Any other ideas?
     

Share This Page