At Atlanta March 7th, 7:00 PM

Discussion in 'March 2009' started by Dlev59, Mar 2, 2009.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    No, I'm trying to tell you that he cleans up after others and gets his points efficiently off of offensive rebounds.

    And I'm also trying to say that scoring is not Maxiell's problem.


    I'm not totally cool with going into the playoffs with 2 big men who live for the inefficient jump shot. What ends up happening is what happened last night. They go 5-17 and don't get to the line and we lose.
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ok, but scoring off offensive hoops is not the same as taking 17 shots within the offense to generate points. If you're out there to offensive rebound, you're going to get less shots than if you were part of the offense as a scorer.

    I'm just saying, Sheed and to a lesser degree Dice are asked to take much different shots than Amir, and to a lesser degree, Maxiell.

    It's not apples to apples.

    I'll agree whole-heartedly. His problem is FT%.

    I hear you brother, but our best offensive rebounder is a foul machine and our most efficient per shot scorer struggles to defensively rebound.

    We have 4 guys, that if you combined them, you would have the greatest NBA player ever. Instead, they are like Voltron when the blue Lion doesn't show up.
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    When Max is in the game we get 52.1% of the total rebounds. What is the problem?

    When Dice is in the game we get 52.2% of the total rebounds.

    Both of these are great, we are outrebounding the opposition!


    Here is my problem with both Max and Dyess though:

    With Dyess, we score 106.9 and give up 111.8 per 100 possessions.
    With Maxiell, we score 107.2 and give up 111.7.
    With Amir, we score 106.3 and give up 101.9. (10 points less!!!!)


    The thing that many fail to realize is that when you have a big in there who takes 6 shots instead of 12, other players on the team get more shots to make up for it. You don't lose point for point the difference in the scoring of the 2 bigs you're comparing. This is my AI argument too. Don't have an inefficient shooter take a lot of shots (like Sheed) when you could have Rip and others shooting. If Sheed is going to get shots, I want him getting post shots and drawing fouls, because this is something others can't do.
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You lost me.
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    In summary:

    1) I don't care how many rebounds Max gets as long as we rebound well as a team with him in the game. And we do.

    2) With Amir in the game, our scoring does not go down, yet our opponent's scoring plummets (even counting all the free throws they shoot).

    3) If a guy doesn't take many shots, there are more available for his teammates to shoot. If that same guy gets offensive boards, then there are even more shots to go around.
  6. HelloIDistance

    HelloIDistance First Round Draft Pick

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    Exactly. I still have a hard time believing Max, Amir or Kwame would be better then Sheed or Dyess. The only one who comes close is Max.

    Amir is pointless to talk about becuase he can't stay on the floor. It doesn't matter how athletic you are if you can't stay on the floor for more than 5 minutes without commiting 4 fouls. Kwame is also irrelvant he's just not that good. Probably one of the biggest busts in NBA history.

    Stats don't tell the whole story. Remember when Amir was one of the leaders in + or - last year (in the whole NBA). There's other factors. Factor in who Sheed and Dyess play against compared to Max, Amir and Kwame.

    Max has no post game. Amir has no post game. Kwame has no post game. Sheed and Dyess although they don't use it as much have a post game, but they're 34 years old. It's gonna be hard to compete for 35-40 minutes a game. Sheed and Dyess have a jumpshot. Max, Amir and Kwame don't.

    It sucks, but our best chance to win is by playing Sheed and Dyess. Our other bigs don't have a post game or a jump shot.
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Exactly, and this year Amir has played against mainly other teams' starters and and the trend of leading our team in +/- continues.

    It's a tired argument at this point, but he is capable of lasting 30+ minutes before fouling out, not 5. 30 is more than any bench player gets anyways and more than Amir gets even when he wasn't in foul trouble.

    If he just surrendered and allowed dunks like Dyess everyone would be happy with him it seems because he wouldn't be fouling.

    Isn't it a little strange that Amir either starts or gets DNP'd? It's been through 2 complete cycles now. How can a guy be so essential to MC in one interview and be an afterthought in the next, then be absolutely critical to our success once again, then be an afterthought again? That's why I'm not basing my opinion of players to match MC's current starting lineup.

    When he plays Herrmann over Afflalo, that doesn't make me automatically think Afflalo is a disappointment and Herrmann stretches defenses.

    I've sort of come to the conclusion that the coaches base everything on perception and their perception changes from day to day like the weather.
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ok, it all sounds good.

    And my problem with Amir is personal, if you haven't already figured that out. I can't stand he's playing in a Pee Wee Herman body in a Dwight Howard league. He could be so much more. Losers like me have to work hard to be successful, and here is a guy who (it appears to me) gets by on natural gifts.

    As a fan, I prefer the Ben Wallaces and Dennis Rodmans. No one gave them a free ride. They worked until they could no longer be denied as a force.
  9. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

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    This is why I gave Amir 3 years and out in the NBA...in last year's thread.
  10. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    and do not forget that Amir LOST his job, dice did not "win" it. Dice actually did not pursue starter's spot but amir still managed to loose it.

    :amen:
  11. DirtyMoney

    DirtyMoney First Round Draft Pick

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    The game was very exciting. But, we lost.
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Because Roscoe personally doesn't like him or his body and doesn't think he's had his come-up-ins?

    NBA GM's don't typcially take that into account when they offer a player an extension.
    :laugh:


    I feel like Amir, Maxiell, and Afflalo are 3 of the hardest working guys on the team. No Darko vibe coming from them as far as I can tell. Why all the hate? They don't complain, all reports say that they practice like crazy, they hustle, they don't front. Tough crowd here.

    He also got his starting job back at one point. By definition, does that mean he "won" it back? He's been playing pretty much the same way for 3 years now. That exact effort has resulted in the NBADL and a starting position in the NBA and everything in between with little or no correlation to his results.
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I was trying to be honest. I don't think he's living up to his potential. That's my personal, unfounded, inexpert opinion.

    Now, sure, NBA GMs do all sorts of things. They draft Darko ahead of Dwyane Wade, Carmello Anthony and Chris Bosh for example.

    I told you how I feel so that you could write it off, and say, "Screw Roscoe, that's just his bias", and you would be right about that.

    You are 100% correct that when Amir plays, we play better. Just as you are correct that Chauncey Billups is a great player, and yet I still can't stand him. You're not wrong. I just don't agree. :lightsabersmiley:
  14. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    So if We MAKE shots and there no offensive rebounds to get, WHAT GOOD IS HE on offense?
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We might getting further arguing about the Automotion. You can tell me how hot they are and I'll come back with detailed measurements! It would be so much more fun and productive.
  16. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    Ive said that for months.

    People who live for stats , have never played the game and meet their mates on match.com.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That would be a very nice problem to have. But if that were the case, why would you care what his role would be on offense since it already has a 100% success rate. At that point, you should only care what he does on defense.
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This forum thrives on personal respect for others posters.
  19. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    I said the same thing Nemo. Like i sai the other night, Id take any of those guys i saw on Golden state over Amir any day. What is it about those Cali boys anyway? SofT-T-T!
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don't live for stats, but sometimes it's the only way to progress a discussion. You say he sucks, I say he's great. Where do you go from there? Oh, you think he really really really sucks? Wow, I think he's really really really really great. And so on. There would be some pretty short discussions here if we all just gave a thumbs up or a thumbs down for a player and didn't bother looking into it any further.

    Also, I have no idea why you'd assume I haven't played ball? I didn't play in college, so maybe you got me there.

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