Discussion in 'December 2008' started by Dlev59, Dec 14, 2008.
AI was taken out due to a jammed thumb.
Nope...Absolutely NOT.It couldn't take AI out.That was nothin for him...He played with broken finger last season and in USA team before.
But this is the excuse MC will say in press conference ofc.
Lee what is your take on Max this year? I know you keep saying he's one of our best bigs and all, but comparing him to last year he seems timid and not his bull in a glass house attitude that I have come to love and yearn to see again. He's done it in limited mins before, so energy shouldn't be effected by lack of mins, can see his shooting be off by the lack of time. If he was playing like he had in the past I have to think he'd be getting more mins at this point.
See i think we still can be with the right rotations. Not 2004-esque or even 2005, but good enough. The one thing that really disappoints me is that i thought the bench was going to play. Arron to a degree has, but who else ? Max/Amir/Kb it seems are not aloud to play in the same game, and when the games are considered "big", Curry tightens the ropes.
In the begginning of the year MC was all about rebounding, defense, etc. then we made the AI trade, things fell apart and it's like he switched philosophies overnight.
Sacrificing rebounding for scoring, playing PHX suns style basketball, these aren't things that are going to take us to the level we're trying to get to. I don't think he's hopeless, but i think Joe overestimated how much he could handle.
IMO, it's only a matter of time before AI says something. He looked pissed to put it mildly in the 4th quarter (even though he wasn;t playing all that well to begin with today) and i can't see him staying quiet if the losing continues.
edited to add;
I didn't know he was injured, Hopefully that was why he looked like that.
I don't know if you watched the game. When the thumb got jammed, AI quit playing. Action was still going on, but he was in too much pain to care. He needed to come out for a moment. Sure, you can go back in after a few moments after such an injury, but no, playing thru that moment where you can't feel your hand won't work.
Lee, I'm listening to you on the podshow.
* Maxiell can't rebound. He's one of our worst rebounding forwards. He's also clueless on switches on defense.
* Amir doesn't foul less the more he plays. That relationship is inverted. When Amir doesn't foul, he gets to stay on the court. Amir's fouls drive his playing time, not the other way around. You made a sophisticated correlation as causation argument, that is false.
* You also made the argument in a similar manner about Amir stopping penetration, and as The Low indicated, Amir didn't stop penetration, Bibby just shot wide open 3s.
The horse has to come before the cart.
Give me an E!
Give me an F-F!
Pistons: . . .
To Low. I looked it up. Carlisle had 11 years experience in the NBA, as an assistant coach before joining the Pistons. He started as an assistant coach in 1989.
(We were discussing coaches on the podcast. I mentioned that Carlisle knew what he was doing, as he had many years as an assistant before being our coach. This is in contrast to Curry, who just had last year as experience. And whom I am now referring to as clueless.)
Also Low, while I am not completely into calling for Curry to be fired at the moment, I don't think it would be a bad idea either. My point was though, that you can't make trades if you don't have a competent coach. An incompetent coach will not make the team any better because you got new players. An incompetent coach will just continue to mess everything up by playing poor rotations.
PISTONS: Pistons 78, Hawks 85
Die small ball!
I don't see what the big deal is. DET just held one of the EC's best teams to 85 points. Just a little while ago they were giving up 130 to any and everybody.
This team has nothing but upside on its' horizon once they get rid of Sheed. AI got plenty of rest tonight so that was good.
Tay's minutes should be measured like dog years. 7 minutes for him = 1 for everyone else. The only way he can get tired is from squeezing the air out of the ball on offense or by packing one too many dolls into his suitcase on these road trips. If they were looking to cut his minutes, they should work it out with the league where they can start all their possessions with 18 on the shot clock instead of having him handle the ball.
Dyess hit most of his few outside shots taken and got inside plenty so there are no problems there.
I think Mike Bibby hides a taser in his shorts with the way TG went down. He might still be down if he didn't wear a goalies mask during games.
Ernie, that post was solid gold.
We are still at that mid-team plus level but not at the next level. The second unit has a real problem the last two games. No three ball shooters. The second unit has trouble scoring. We lost to Utah and to Atlanta in the second quarter. We had Amir, Bynum, Afflalo, Dyss and AI on the floor, I believe. Teams will often zone up and focus on AI. The problem is that Hermann does not produce consistent offense. A three baller is suppose to be with that group.
I can't blame Curry for the roster imbalence. Rip, AI and Stuckey--that is three guys for two spots. Stuckey is playing at times as good as the other two. Do we bench Stuckey? AI? Who?
The offense is good but still breaks down for stretches even with the first unit. We are absolutely not getting anything out of Tay or Dyss lately. Tay should be doing some spot up three shooting. Dyss is not a good inside player and Sheed's inside game is either not there or inconsistent. The offense is playing a poor version of small ball. Stuckey and AI should be driving and Tay and Sheed spotting up for jumpers. If you are going to play western style, play it to the hilt. Poor one on one stuff in the 4th kept us from grabbing that game.
I think you are going down the wrong path here. Bynum is an inexperienced point guard, who was basically overhandling the ball with no clue as to what to do. It did not matter who was out there with him. We lost that 2nd quarter largely because we were giving our 3rd string point some development time. (Remember, Curry says Bynum is now the backup point guard.) Now, I won't say anything too bad about giving someone some development time. No problem. But between Bynum, AI, and Stuckey, five uncontested triples were given up in that 2nd quarter to Bibby. (Currys says it was AI four times. AI admits to two times) In any case, our point guard play, which consisted of two of our starters and a rookie point guard, should in no way get confused with the play of Amir and Afflalo, who were also out there.
Also, the key big of late, the one who is playing when we are winning games, is Jason Maxiell, who did not even get to play today. This is all a coaches problem, not anything to do with how good the roster is. In other words, a whole lot more could have been done to win this game, as opposed to several other coaching objectives Curry worked on instead.
Just to get specific on the rebounding: Our two starting bigs, Tay and Sheed, did not get any offensive rebounds. Who Curry thinks is our 3rd best big, Dyess, got 1 in his 25 minutes. Thats about 80 minutes of play, 1 offensive rebound between the three. (in contrast, the guy Curry can't seem to find minutes for, Amir, got 2 in his 8 minutes.)
If MC is not going to seperate Rip and AI then Tay needs to go to the pine. There are not enough balls on the court for Rip, AI, Stuck and Tay. Since Stuck got added to the starting line up his game has gone south. Move him to the second unit and get Amir back in with the starters. AJ's proneness to foul will limit his minutes anyways and will get us a rebounder on the floor while we have 4 other jumpshooters on the floor.
Tay can be the go to option on the second unit and they can find some minutes for AA with him. AA has been deadly with his jumpshot lately. He needs more time on the floor.
You know AI's defense would look alot better against bench players. Just sayin.
I agree with the general sentiment though. Someone has to benched. This line-up doesn't work. It can't sustain any kind of momentum b/c we're giving up so much size.
And the AA rule was in full effect this game. I forgot how many minutes he has to play so we can win. I think it has to be at least 5 or maybe 10.
Oy. (deleted all my complaining)... in summary, we got outrebounded again, and got KILLED at the line. Sheed + bench = 0 FTA's for 2nd straight game.
Anyways, on to the good stuff:
I really liked the way we used Sheed on offense today. 13 two-point attempts. What came into him? Was it something MC mandated? His best move of the night was the pump fake step in that he missed, but it was still great to see him moving toward the hoop from the post. He needs to draw contact on these at least sometimes.
Stuckey was very good. The assists weren't there because Atlanta's defense was strong, but Stuck was making jumpers and got inside more than anyone else on our team. At this point I'll admit that he's looking better than Dyess and the new Tay (PF).
Amir looked OK. Was good to see him out of the dog house for 8 minutes.
Rip was doing some scoring that wasn't all easy.
That's about it.
I was not impressed with Atlanta's game tonight. Without Bibby's shooting unconscious from everywhere (regardless of who was guarding him), they played a poor, inconsistent game.
The Pistons could have won the game through numerous moments of someone hitting layups, uh, actually put-ups (Dyess). Tay showing more life than a slug. The bench concluding tonight's effort by saying, "what, me score." Professionalism by taking some game hits and knowing that the sun will shine tomorrow and this mask must start protecting the top of my head or I will have to keep answering these voices in my head (Rip). AI, whose thumb was jammed and even I caught this on camera, needs to take charge if only it means a momentarily show of cheer-leading for the team. Pouting does not instill confidence. Come playoff time this team will need to feel alive when he says, "I will spread the floor, everyone be alert and be prepared to take it hard to the basket when the shots goes up."
Sheed showed one very big scene tonight. When the pistons have a big down low that settles around the paint and can hit those turn-arounds, it makes the small ball of Stuckey, AI and Rip tough to stop. Fortunately for Atlanta, Sheed does not take things seriously on a consistent basis and those threes just look prettier and he must admit that there is more closeness to the refs where he can (non-stop) voice his concerns.
Curry (and, as always, including Flip) you have my deepest sympathies.
Bynum had a poor run no doubt but we had the same 2nd quarter results against Utah in terms of the Pistons not doing much scoring without Bynum in there. We defended well against Utah in that 2nd quarter but could have blown that game open with just a little scoring.
My point is with the offense of the second unit. Utah went to a zone and we had trouble scoring. The Pistons don't have a 3 ball shooter come into the game. Sheed and Tay leave. Most teams have someone who can bomb away on the 2nd unit which helps to spread the floor. The good teams will study what happened in those second quarters on the Piston offense.
Hermann has not played up to the role that was undoubtedly envisioned for him for the second unit. If he showed better shooting skills, he could provide some points to offset his defensive limitations. But his shooting has not been consistent enough. I don't blame Curry for not going to him. But he may have to alter the rotations so that a shooter in on the second unit--maybe Tay.
i'm not sure what to say about this one...held atlanta to 42% shooting and lost (22-7 FTA disparity was probably it). dice missed 2 layups but at least he got inside for them.
people initially said rip or ai would have to go to the bench...but it's looking more like tay is the one who would be a better fit there if you want to keep rip/ai/stuckey all starting. if you're going to have rip guarding 3s so often (especially to start the game), then you may not really need tay at the 4. i mean, if stuckey continues this offense and we can get sheed to play down low more like today, then why have 5 scorers on the floor? often tay seems to forget he's a PF and is not under the basket for rebounds (especially if he's the one shooting outside shots).
put tay on the bench and he gets to take responsibility for the 2nd unit, he can do his backdown/hooks against lesser players, you have a 3-point threat off the bench, you start the game with a more conventional lineup, and you can still give him 30 minutes a game and switch him to SF when you need to give rip/ai/stuckey a break.
or, hope phoenix starts sucking again and get them to give us amare for tay+amir.
roscoe, i do have to disagree with you about max and his rebounding. even if he doesn't get to every ball, he keeps offensive possessions alive and he intimidates/regulates on every shot. whereas oftentimes you'll see us put up a shot and NO one around the basket, when he's on the floor and a shot goes up he will ALWAYS barrel toward the basket and shove guys out of his way. who else is getting physical with the other team...sheed? tay? amir?
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