Discussion in 'February 2008' started by Dlev59, Feb 11, 2008.
Could you imagine Sheed leading a PETA protest, with a bull horn???
I remember Tay being mainly at fault that game, but didn't Big Baby have like 10 rebounds or so (? don't remember how many offensive). And we were outrebounded that game as well ?
Rebounding is a problem for us in the PO's. It was againt CLE. It was against CHI in games where TT played extensively. I'm sick of seeing another's team's big guy come in and dominate us on the boards when we have a guys who's just as capable of doing it to the other team sitting on our bench.
Also young, quick legs can rotate and recover faster.
This I agree with. The perimeter breakdowns are what hurt us the most in that game. Dice, Sheed - whoever was in there had to go and help, leaving that "Worse than Boobie" nicknamed guy wide open for dunks and layups. And, they had KG. You can't leave KG to go guard that rook. Sheed had to stay with his man. If drafting 3 guards (keeping 2) is not an indication that Joe thinks his team's perimeter D is what's lacking, I don't know what is.
Lastly, Sheed and Dice are both 33 and can't rotate as quickly as maybe a guy like Josh Smith or Al Horford or AJ can. It's just not physically possible, so the onus is on the perimeter guys to not get beat.
A lot of the penetration by guards is caused by the other team's designed plays. Most of the time, it isn't that Chauncey can't stay in front of his man, it is that he gets picked off of him. Same with Rip and Tay. Our bigs have a tough job, but they aren't the lumbering Ilgauskas types. They are coordinated athletes with several all-star appearances under their belts. Their job is to play help defense and rotate accordingly.
Some teams have players that are next to impossible to stop. That is why those players are getting boatloads of money and also why they have a bunch of crappy other players to compliment them (salary cap). There will be games when the LeBrons of the league go off. That is when the Pistons need to punish the other team with the mismatches that we create.
Everyone of Davis' pts in that 4th qtr run were off of Pierce Asts, except one, when Pierce passed to KG and after the defensive rotation - KG passed to Davis. Davis had 4 rebs and only 1 offensive during that run and it was on his own missed layup - ala Moses Malone. We outrebounded Bos 36-35 that game, they beat us on the off glass 15-10, most of their off rebs (6) came from Rondo and Allen, Big baby had 3 (2 of which came in the 1st half and they did not score off of them) and Perkins had 4 early on. All I'm saying is, we lose more because of poor perimeter D than our bigs giving up offensive rebs.
Yes and No. Bruce Bowen once said that the reason he was so good defensively is because he was the best in the league at fighting through a screen and getting a hand in the face. AA, Lindsey,Stuck are AWESOME at fighting through picks and not allowing the defense to easily pick them. Watch, the contrast between them is fascinating. Being great on D has a whole lot to do with how much effort you're willing to expend on the pick and roll.
What game am i thinking of where Davis had 10 rebounds? That's stuck in my head, and now it's going to bother the hell out of me. Obviously it wasn't against us.
That wasn't the case tonight, but your right about the Boston game.
But it should be better in theory now that the starters will be rested, and we have Afflalo/Stuckey to stick on the quicker players. The only weak spot is again SF. Unless AA shows he can handle that, but somehow him guarding PP/LBJ doesn't inspire confidence. But it also doesn't inspire dread like Jarvis.
edited to add;
Amir seems like the type that can erase alot of the mistakes the perimeter D makes. Weak-side shot-blocking, quick help, etc.
Wouldn't zone solve this whole problem?
I'm pretty sure we aren't going to go with Lindsey and Stuckey down the stretch in the Playoffs.
Pistons are 10th in the league in rebounding diff at +1.48. Offensivly we are at +0.9.
Every game is not going to be perfect. One could probably always find something bad in every game. Point is the team found a way to win.
Its gets discouraging reading these game threads sometimes.
Good game, good win. Youngsters got some significant burn in a close competition. I didn't like that Amir didn't get in in the 2nd half, but lets be real. He was struggling defensively on Josh Smith (well, so was everyone else who tried) and he was pushed around under the defensive basket. He got a few offensive board, but clearly struggled on the defensive end. He will get better with time.
There's plenty of positive stuff in this thread. It's just easier to debate and analyze the flaws and negative stuff. Tons of people talked about how much they like Stuckey, but what can you really say about that.
"I like Stuckey"
"He dribbles good"
I like Stuckey! He dribble good!
I like that phase "personal protest against success". Excellent read.
Sometimes we forget that players have personal lives. I remember reading in december that max has a relative that is sick. You never know, but I do not think it is amir's success.
It must have been when he was at LSU, because the most rebounds he has gotten in a game while with the meanie greenies is 9 vs the Kings on Dec 12th of last year.
Unless you are thinking of Dale Davis or Antonio Davis?
Glen Davis - Boston Celtics - Split Statistics - NBA - Yahoo! Sports
NBA - Sacramento Kings/Boston Celtics Box Score Wednesday December 12, 2007 - Yahoo! Sports
True, very true.
But he needs to learn to walk and get away with it, like Kobe, Lebron, Carmello, D. Wade, etc. LOL
well he does seem to step and hop sometimes, but on both feet rather than the wade shuffle, so maybe he's getting there
HQ, glad you liked my previous post...hehe. as for the game, i knew we were in trouble from the start. if it weren't for sheed in the 1st quarter we'd have been down 10 after 1 - rip being sick and chauncey being passive did not help at all. that guy has carried us in several games this year where we did not have energy.
afflalo had a decent game, but i think he's feeling a little left out of the 'zoo crew' because his game isn't based on strictly offense. he forced a couple times yesterday, and while one layup worked on the fast break, josh smith welcomed him to the NBA on the other - and he should've gotten the ball to the middle of the floor since Tay was ahead of him. he's been pretty poor on his FTs as of late too.
stuckey continues to look amazing. he's finishing strong *and* doing it over big men and great shot blockers. the ability to use his body to draw contact and then double-pump so his shot doesn't get blocked is awesome. his jumper is also looking better, and if he develops that...look out. i thought he made a mistake on the one play where he drove the basket and got blocked, because he could've dished to max, but hey he was feeling it so that one can slide.
amir continues to do the dirty work and contribute - 4 rebounds (3 offensive), and assist, and 3/4 shooting for 6 points...in only 6 minutes?? that's great. he is a big reason why the bench if scoring a lot and maintaining/increasing leads in the 2nd quarter, because even when our jumpers aren't falling we are getting a LOT of extra possessions. again flip said in the postgame that he's disappointed he didn't use amir in the 2nd half, but hey, it's going to take a little time to trust him and he's making the most of his minutes in the 2nd quarter. he's producing every time, which is going to keep him on the floor.
max isn't having as many spectacular plays as he used to, but that still doesn't mean he's doing a bad job. he grabbed some boards, got a block and steal, and made that crazy shot, along with some solid defense. you can see his rebounding limitations though...his size makes it difficult against some players like horford who is taller, or smith who can just leap out of the gym.
this game got close, but chauncey still only played 29 minutes, rip was under 36, tay under 34...i'll take it. you see how much better chauncey plays when he has rest, and he even said in his postgame interview with blaha that it really helped out. stuckey is getting better and better, and has the potential to be a very special player.
KGREG, please stop using "logic" and "rationality" in your posts.
I hate to say it, but I think playing 10 guys is the bare minimum for this team. They should get to 11-12 deep per game. I was interested to see what happened after Sheed's hot start. He has been coming out somewhere around the 4:30 to 4 minute mark. Flip left him out there this game. That isn't the end of the world except that he left the rest of the frontcourt out there as well. The end of the first was the first crack in DET's play.
Flip is reluctant (at best) to play certain combos together. He could probably break the ten man barrier (or at worst move the minutes from good to great) if he played Max and AJ together for just a few minutes at the end of the 1st. Provided the world doesn't end, Sheed could come back in for Max with 8 to go in the quarter as he has been. Dyess comes back in with 6 to go or so. (I do hate to see Dyess' 18 minute stretches end though.)
Flip had the same phobia about playing AA and Stuckey together and it limited the minutes they could play. That hasn't been an issue since. (I haven't noticed Flip twitching lately either. Is he saving that for CLE?)
While I like the overall minute distribution, I am not a big fan of guys sitting out entire quarters. It doesn't seem sustainable during the playoffs. I would much rather see the 13 minute CB runs end.
sorry, but those minute-based analysis are 20/20 hindsights: we already know what happpened and therefore is extremly easy to say "but this players should..." or "but coach should instead of this..." . C'mon, both players and coaches do not own a crystal ball... Game flows as it flows and I'm against of something like that "I must to put this boy in regardless of what 'cuz he needs to play 5 min in 1st Q".
No need to panick of every played minute (or minut distribution) and no need to overanalyze one or two moves.
Hockey mentality. I like it.
Here is something that I've been thinking to myself. Why does the short bursts of energy with shifts of players cycling in the game every few minutes work in hockey, but not basketball? I always hear the argument that hockey is one of the most tiring sports, but wouldn't bball be just as tiring if you put in similar effort?
I guess I like the 10+ man rotation for a team like the Pistons because it seems like our guys are capable of playing extreme pressure D when they expend their full energy.
Afflalo, Rip, and Maxiell are all approaching that maximum effort right now. The other players seem to pace themselves a bit. Amir is in a different category. He may be trying really hard, but he just looks effortless.
Being in the A, I have gone to many Hawks games I can say Briana is something special. The team only brings out the A-squad dancers for certain games - Lakers, Heat, NY, etc. that bring the best crowds. Brianna is the unofficial leader, and probably only dances in 25% of the games. Its crazy to since shes the cover girl for the calendar.
Separate names with a comma.