Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mikhail1973, Jun 22, 2009.
What about all the intangibles he brings?
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Planking, saunas, tweeting, beach workouts, etc. What am I missing?
It's funny where the Pistons rank in the eyes of many. Take the Detroit News sports page, for example:
Sports | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com
First, you have the sports headlines. As you move down the page, there are sections for the following:
High School sports
Big Ten sports
THEN the Pistons
It's got to be tough if you're an NBA team that rates below high school sports in your own home city sports page.
Twitter and Instagram fights with fans.
I enjoy this team a lot more with low expectations than with high expectations.
Updates on the latest custom work on the Bentley. Did you see the CV floor mats, or the special order CV31 brake calipers on the Turbo Bentley?
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Did a quick check on ESPN stats for this. There were 8 PFs that were listed as "qualifying players", meaning 55 3-pointers or more. Here's how Charlie ranks:
3pt FG%: 7th (between Antawn Jamison and Derrick Williams)
3pm per game: 3rd (between Cartier Martin and Dirk Nowitzki)
3pm total: 2nd (behind Ryan Anderson)
When you look at all PFs (that have scored 10 or more 3 pointers) in the league he ranks:
3pt FG%: 13th (between Serge Ibaka and Mirza Teletovic)
So, he's almost as good a 3pt shooter as Serge Ibaka. He does shoot a lot of 3pointers though.
So, I looked at his shot selection, and he is one of the few PFs that takes more 3pointers than 2pointers. (interesting sidebar: Ryan Anderson has taken 557 3-pointers and 558 2-pointers).
I then sorted the stats by 3PA total and compared those numbers to the 2PA. The following players seem to take more 3-pointers (all within the top 20 when sorted by 3PA. I also included their 3pt shooting percentage.
(Player: 3pta/2pta/3pt %)
Cartier Martin: 146/106/.397
Anthony Tolliver: 133/83/.338
Rashard Lewis: 131/118/.389
Matt Bonner: 120/110/.442
Mirza Teletovic: 108/77/.343
Based on these stats, the PFs that CV is most similar to are Anthony Tolliver and Mirza Teletovic. The others also shoot 3 pointers, but actually make them at a better clip which justifies their 3pt specialist roles.
So, I compared CV to Tolliver (didn't include Teletovic because this is just his second season and he hasn't played much) in a little more detail, this is what it looks like (career averages):
The numbers look eerily similar. So what we have in CV is an Anthony Tolliver who scores about 6 more points and grabs 1 more rebounds.
Tolliver made $915,852 last year compared to CV's $8M, and there's the rub. In essence, each of extra those points and the sole rebound costs $1M each. To put it in perspective, CV made more money last year than Tolliver did over his entire 7 year career in the league.
Nice move by Gores.
Pistons owner donates $250,000 to Detroit school - Yahoo Sports
He's above average. Most pfs don't shoot threes because they stink at it. Think Jason Maxwell.
But, those PFs that don't shoot 3s also do other things. CV rarely brings anything else to the table. He's like a big Kyle Korver who can't shoot or defend as well.
I'm not saying he's an above average power forward. But to say he's a below average three point shooter for a power forward isn't fair. He shoots better than sheed, who is considered above average for his position.
CV: career .346. With pistons .362.
RW: career .319. Pistons .348.
And we happen to have a definite need for a stretch 4 off the bench for times when defenses pack the paint against us. Harrelson or jerebko might fill the role better even with a lower three point rate by doing other things on the court.
When Rasheed played for the Pistons, opposing teams would guard him. Not so much for Charlie.
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Their mistake apparently.
I'm done arguing about CV...but, it's still entertaining to read.
Actually, I didn't think that was your point at all. I figured you were making the argument that he's above average 3pt shooter for a PF. If you look at the 3PT% alone, that is correct. And, he also has scored more three than Dirk did last year.
But, the issue is that he has reduced his game down to being a 3pt specialist. You would want your 3pt specialist to have a higher percentage than that to warrant it. In other words, if your only job is to jack up 3 pointers, being above average doesn't cut it. You gotta be pretty darn good at it.
I'd take CV over Stuckey from 3 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. LOL
He also is our resident enforcer.
I'd ask Tyler Hansbrough about that. LOL
Jason Maxwell or Jason Stuckey?
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