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Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mikhail1973, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    What about all the intangibles he brings?


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  2. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Planking, saunas, tweeting, beach workouts, etc. What am I missing?
     
  3. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    It's funny where the Pistons rank in the eyes of many. Take the Detroit News sports page, for example:

    Sports | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

    First, you have the sports headlines. As you move down the page, there are sections for the following:

    Tigers/MLB
    Lions/NFL
    MSU
    UM
    Red Wings/NHL
    High School sports
    Big Ten sports

    THEN the Pistons

    It's got to be tough if you're an NBA team that rates below high school sports in your own home city sports page.
     
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  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Twitter and Instagram fights with fans.
     
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  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I enjoy this team a lot more with low expectations than with high expectations.
     
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  6. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Updates on the latest custom work on the Bentley. Did you see the CV floor mats, or the special order CV31 brake calipers on the Turbo Bentley?

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  7. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Did a quick check on ESPN stats for this. There were 8 PFs that were listed as "qualifying players", meaning 55 3-pointers or more. Here's how Charlie ranks:

    3pt FG%: 7th (between Antawn Jamison and Derrick Williams)
    3pm per game: 3rd (between Cartier Martin and Dirk Nowitzki)
    3pm total: 2nd (behind Ryan Anderson)

    When you look at all PFs (that have scored 10 or more 3 pointers) in the league he ranks:

    3pt FG%: 13th (between Serge Ibaka and Mirza Teletovic)

    So, he's almost as good a 3pt shooter as Serge Ibaka. He does shoot a lot of 3pointers though.

    So, I looked at his shot selection, and he is one of the few PFs that takes more 3pointers than 2pointers. (interesting sidebar: Ryan Anderson has taken 557 3-pointers and 558 2-pointers).

    I then sorted the stats by 3PA total and compared those numbers to the 2PA. The following players seem to take more 3-pointers (all within the top 20 when sorted by 3PA. I also included their 3pt shooting percentage.

    (Player: 3pta/2pta/3pt %)
    CV: 259/205/.347
    Cartier Martin: 146/106/.397
    Anthony Tolliver: 133/83/.338
    Rashard Lewis: 131/118/.389
    Matt Bonner: 120/110/.442
    Mirza Teletovic: 108/77/.343

    Based on these stats, the PFs that CV is most similar to are Anthony Tolliver and Mirza Teletovic. The others also shoot 3 pointers, but actually make them at a better clip which justifies their 3pt specialist roles.

    So, I compared CV to Tolliver (didn't include Teletovic because this is just his second season and he hasn't played much) in a little more detail, this is what it looks like (career averages):

    (Player: mpg/FG%/3pt%/FT%/TS%/eFG%/Rebs/Ast/Stl/Blk/TOV/Pts)
    CV: 23.6/.441/.346/.778/.523/.494/5.3/1.0/0.6/0.6/1.1/11.8
    Tolliver: 19.9/.413/.325/.782/.534/.485/4.0/1.0/0.4/0.4/0.7/6.1

    The numbers look eerily similar. So what we have in CV is an Anthony Tolliver who scores about 6 more points and grabs 1 more rebounds.

    Tolliver made $915,852 last year compared to CV's $8M, and there's the rub. In essence, each of extra those points and the sole rebound costs $1M each. To put it in perspective, CV made more money last year than Tolliver did over his entire 7 year career in the league.
     
  8. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He's above average. Most pfs don't shoot threes because they stink at it. Think Jason Maxwell.
     
  10. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    But, those PFs that don't shoot 3s also do other things. CV rarely brings anything else to the table. He's like a big Kyle Korver who can't shoot or defend as well.
     
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm not saying he's an above average power forward. But to say he's a below average three point shooter for a power forward isn't fair. He shoots better than sheed, who is considered above average for his position.

    CV: career .346. With pistons .362.

    RW: career .319. Pistons .348.
     
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  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    And we happen to have a definite need for a stretch 4 off the bench for times when defenses pack the paint against us. Harrelson or jerebko might fill the role better even with a lower three point rate by doing other things on the court.
     
  13. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    When Rasheed played for the Pistons, opposing teams would guard him. Not so much for Charlie.

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  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Their mistake apparently.
     
  15. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm done arguing about CV...but, it's still entertaining to read. :reading:
     
  16. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Actually, I didn't think that was your point at all. I figured you were making the argument that he's above average 3pt shooter for a PF. If you look at the 3PT% alone, that is correct. And, he also has scored more three than Dirk did last year.

    But, the issue is that he has reduced his game down to being a 3pt specialist. You would want your 3pt specialist to have a higher percentage than that to warrant it. In other words, if your only job is to jack up 3 pointers, being above average doesn't cut it. You gotta be pretty darn good at it.
     
  17. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'd take CV over Stuckey from 3 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. LOL
     
  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He also is our resident enforcer.
     
  19. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'd ask Tyler Hansbrough about that. LOL

     
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  20. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Jason Maxwell or Jason Stuckey?
     
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