Arroyo vs Acker

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by LA Sam, Sep 7, 2005.

  1. LA Sam

    LA Sam Second Round Draft Pick

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    This was brought up on the old forum by Lee and Micro, but I thought it might be worth persuing here. Lee thought Acker would take minutes from Arroyo, and that Arroyo's job may not be that secure.

    Arroyo's problem as I see it is that the league is moving more towards bigger guards. Sure there are very successful players his size and smaller, but they seem to have something outstanding about their game. Arroyo does have very good point guard skills, and has shown the ability to organize the offense. The only problem is that he's never going to be able to start(baring injury), so he's going to have to become the leader off the bench.

    If he can be successful with these less gifted/experienced players, he will make an impact, and solidify his position. I am also bothered by his need to be the single point of contact. In order for Arroyo to deliver on his considerable passing skills, he needs the ball for the majority of the clock. That's a major problem for a team trying to get ball movement because they have many threats. That worked in the talent depleted Utah teams he played on, but won't work here.

    Will Arroyo adjust? Can he? All I know is that I won't count him out, but he's got a lot of work ahead to secure minutes this time.
     
  2. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Sam

    Good thing for Carlos the situation is such that everyone has to adjust. It's likely that no one really understands what is expected of them, on the offensive end that is.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Acker is probably spare parts this year unless there is an injury.

    Arroyo needs a full camp with the team. I think the bench will only be as good as Arroyo can make them.

    And my discussion with PRBaller was about more about how he remarked during the playoffs that lee was very open minded about Arroyo, but true to form a younger player with Summer League credentials has come along to be better than him in everyway.

    How fickle some people are when potential and youth arrives.

    Somehow SL performances equates to some sort of professional breakout. I hope not because Acker outplayed Darko and Delfino in the SL and we need both of those guys to raise their games this season more than a 6th guard.
     
  4. max

    max All-Star

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    Sam

    I posted this over at DetNews.

    A Pre-Draft analysis ranked him #23 of all avail shooting guards entering the draft.

    23) Acker just doesn't measure up to the rest of these guys. He wasn't the best player on an average team. Every stat of his just isnt up to the level of the other players available. In a normal year he might be a second round possibility, but in this crowded field he doesnt have much of a shot. If he went back to school, he would be the main guy at Pepperdine, what with McGowan leaving. Next season, in a less crowded field, Acker would find a better situation for himself.

    http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/ew17.htm


    Does anyone remember Acker on any of the pre-draft predictions?
     
  5. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    gotta go with Arroyo

    The installation of the zone (as mentioned by someone else in the forum) will make Arroyo less of a liability on defense. I think Arroyo has good basketball instincts and will rise to the occasion this year. Unless he is a complete bust, I think in all likelyhood Joe will take advantage of the NBDL opportunity for some of the young folk so that they can get some valuable playing experience instead of riding the pine. I don't think this is no longer an option for Arroyo, so expect him to get the opportunity to see if he can help the ballclub. I honestly believe that it is his job to lose.
     
  6. puertoricanballer

    puertoricanballer First Round Draft Pick

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    This is what I just posted on the other forum:"Lee stated yesterday: "Acker shoots with better range than Arroyo, is better at going in to the basket than Arroyo, and just plain out and simple is taller and longer than Arroyo so is in general a bigger threat to score. I like Arroyo's game as much as anyone, but he has a ways to go on his defense. I am hoping Arroyo becomes our chief backup point, as I believe that will keep our offense (and therefore our defense) well organized."

    I understand the comparison you made, however, Acker will no have the chance to go to the rim as often as you think. He'll not be one of the scoring options, therefore his job will be to deliver the ball to the main offensive players and to organize the offense, and as you stated, Arroyo " will keep our offense well organized". A PG job in this team is not about going to the rim,a la Allen Iverson. The PG job is to make sure the system is run to the coach satisfaction. Can Acker do that at this level? We have to wait and see."


    Obviously Acker is taller than Arroyo, but that doesn't mean he's a better player. How many PG are taller than CB? Is Marco Jaric better than CB or Baron Davis because he's taller? The Orlando Magic drafted Reece Gaines, a 6'6 PG two years ago using the Tall PG trend, thinking he would impact the team with his skills. The only thing this guy impacted was the bench and then he was hit with one -way plane tickets out of town. Acker is just an unproven rookie who's NBA experience is limited to the SL. He might be the futere, but for now he's just destined to the NBDL.</B></B></B>
     
  7. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Why Lee gauges anything in the SL is beyond me. But then again he bases Darko's 3pt ability on warmups and pre-game HORSE competitions. Arroyo is needed on this team. He's shown he has the goods, all he needs is to tweek his game in a few areas. Arroyo has a knack at getting Dyess the ball, and lets face it, that is our stud off the bench and go to guy.
     
  8. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    A vs. A

    I'm not even sure why Arroyo and Acker are drawing comparisons. Arroyo is a mostly proven guy that has great passing skills, below-average shooting skills, and sometimes-suspect defense. But I really like Arroyo's fire, and I think he's explosive on the break. Acker? C'mon. The guy has to do more than be drafted for me to start lending credence to a comparison with a guy that's been in the league a while.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Yep, height don't equal heart. Zeke was a small guard, and he was Batman to Laimbeer's Robin. You either got game, or you don't. Acker may have game, he may be a jewel in the rough. But he doesn't even have a guaranteed contract after the SL. Joe knows what he knows. ;)
     
  10. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    It's just too early to attempt to make any comparisons.
    What Lee didn't take into account is the level of competition in the SL.
    Sure he could get inside and hit some wide open 3's... would those opprtunities be available against NBA talent?

    I liked everything I saw in Acker ... but then again I liked everything about Jenkins the year before in the SL (looked about as complete as a PG could).

    The bigger question is how will Acker play after extended minutes on the bench?
     
  11. puertoricanballer

    puertoricanballer First Round Draft Pick

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    Testing

    Acker will be tested by Arroyo and viceversa. It will be an interesting time.
     
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Shoot to open the pass

    I would encourage Arroyo to look for his own shot much more often... like he did in the Olympics. It is obvious that he won't shoot early in the shot clock and other teams are looking for his passes. If he could establish himself as a threat, his passing effectiveness will go to a new level. Exactly the type of player who cannot succeed under LB.
     
  13. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    instant chemistry

    one of the strengths the pistons have over all other teams in the nba is thier chemistry. arroyo and mcdyess have a very visible chemistry. it's almost a given that as soon as arroyo comes into the game mcdyess is going to get an open shot. he's also going to get that open shot right where he wants it. arroyo just has that kind of game he will be instant chemistry for the second unit. he will get the right guys the ball at the right time. i don't care if he pounds the ball most of the clock because we usually end up with a very good shot. i hope next year that our second unit will be more of an uptempo offensive style unit. we don't need the second unit to be the same style of play as our first unit.

    i think arroyo was hurt last year by lb making him stand at the top and pass to other people instead of him making the play. i also think he was hurt by lb wanting him to be pass only pg. lb also made him overcompensate on defense and arroyo picked up lots of fouls. this year arroyo will push cb for minutes. he's the best backup pg in the league. he makes his teammates better that's why to me he will not have to worry about acker taking his minutes just yet.
     
  14. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    From what I saw out of Acker in Vegas, he's going to be more of a threat to Delfino than to Arroyo. Acker played largely the same roll Delfino would have played during summer league with a few less minutes at the 3 and a few more at the 2.

    I don't think Arroyo has anything to worry about especially if Flip demotes Lindsey to spot duty. The difference will be in Delfino's inconsistency and Acker's apparent model of consistency even if he lacks brilliance. When you become a consistent commodity in the L, your value increases because teams know they can count on you for whatever you give them.
     
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Stats

    Max, that guy who wrote that scouting report probably never even saw Acker play. Note he cited stats. Defense often generates no stats. Acker won't get many blocks, as players are simply not even stupid enough to try to shoot over him. Indeed, where Acker is, the other team is going to avoid placing the basketball. Ben Wallace long suffered from the same problem. Indeed, unless you go the the games at the Palace occasionally, you can't understand how good Ben Wallace is. Strong defensive players are simply that, strong defensive players. Only actually watching the games will work to see strong defense. When the other team strongly avoids getting the ball near a player, like Ben, thats a good sign that the guy plays great D. But no stats at all are generated from this. (In contrast, the worst defender I have seen is M. Curry, who the other team swarmed toward to score their points. Not that Curry did not have his strong points that could be used against certain players, but overall as a regular in our rotation he killed our defense.)
     
  16. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Lee you are wrong on Michael Curry. He was the straw the stirred the drink...here is an ASB article from 2002 to prove it..


    "Detroit Pistons coach Rick Carlisle made the same mistake so many others have made when it comes to Michael Curry -- he underestimated Curry's value.

    It's no coincidence that the Pistons' defense has gone from being tough to timid the last five games, which just so happens to be the number of games Curry was out of the starting lineup.

    But Carlisle, realizing just how valuable Curry is, reinserted him in the starting lineup on Monday.

    Curry replaces rookie Tayshaun Prince, who replaced Curry prior to Detroit's game at Miami on Nov. 22. Along with Curry, the Pistons' first unit includes Richard Hamilton, Cliff Robinson, Ben Wallace and, if healthy enough to play, point guard Chauncey Billups.

    Prince did a decent job as a starter, but it became obvious that he does not have the physical or mental toughness that Curry brings to the unit.
    And without that, the Pistons' defense suffered."

    Lee do you think you are smarter than ASB??
     
  17. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Take on Curry

    My biggest issue with Curry was that his playing time came at the expense of Tayshaun's development. He actually was a very intelligent position defender who was relativlely mistake free in the clutch. He rarely commited a turnover or missed a defensive rotation. Where you normally saw the biggest drop off with Curry's involvement was offensive production. He would essentially become one less weapon on a team that was starving for offensive production. Curry was a motivator that I was hoping would remain a part of the Piston's organization. Old rumors mentioned him as a possible coach in training...ie Avery Johnson. But that never materialized.

    Fortunately, the loss of Curry was just what we needed to turn the corner for Tayshaun and add yet another necessary component for the championship team. Jeesh! must all rookies go through hell before they can emerge on this team? I think the last rookie that was allowed to actually PLAY meaninful minutes was Grant Hill! I guess that is the cost of having a championship team.
     
  18. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    hi

    Yes, absolutely. But thats just my opinion. I do appreciate Blakely a lot. He seems to have a lot of access to what is going on with the Pistons and does a great job sharing what he knows with the fans at mlive.com Pistons forum and in his articles at mlive.com. But this does not make him any more smart about basketball. Informed is not smart. And often Blakely is humble enough to point out that its his opinion, rather than fact.

    His view that Curry was a better defender than Curry was nuts, even though it was the popular view at the time. Nobody on this earth screamed louder than me about how nuts it was that Curry started for this team with several other better options available. If you care to get more into that, let me know. Bottomline though, if you for a moment don't recognize that Prince is a far better defender than Curry ever was, then I'd say your basketball smarts are seriously in question.
     
  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Curry

    I didn't have a problem with having Curry on the floor for defense once in a while. Defense has been a staple for Pistons' success and Curry was an above average defender. The problem that Carlisle got into was when he put Curry and Ben Wallace on the floor at the same time. I love Ben, but putting perhaps the two worst offensive players in the NBA on the court together spelled disaster.

    Only 2 more posts until I get my &**^&%&^&*&*^% avatar....
     
  20. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Bump.....
     
    Laimbrane likes this.

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