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Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Mark V, Jun 1, 2013.
Bargnani is definitely better than CV. How much is debatable, but he is better.
He's been a legitimate starter in the league and he's come close to being a player at times. On his worst day he's better than plank(ton) #31. This cat would be a major upgrade off the bench for a year. If he works out you re-set the $$ going forward. I have no idea if they could get him although now might be the time with the house cleaning up there. I wonder if we could convince the TO people that there's been a curse on the franchise ever since they traded Charlie so they'll take him back?
I think Toronto might bite on this trade if Charlie promises to get in shape during the offseason.
No idea what he's got left, but this team needs a consistent outside shooter like nobody's business.
The title of this thread is invalid due to the fact that we can't trade our 2014 pick until we pay off our draft pick debt to the Charlotte Bobcats Hornets (I think that someone had already established this earlier). From everything that I've heard (as a casual internet fan), Bargnani pretty much has "BoT" status in Toronto and they would basically give the dude away to any team that could absorb his salary. Fans HATE the guy! Much like our beloved Charlie Villanueva and Rodney Stuckey, they simply want him gone and off their books so they can move-on. I'm not a big fan of dudes with female first names (couldn't stand T-Mac as a Piston) but I might see if we could acquire Andrea for basically nothing while ridding ourselves of a mistake of our own: Charley + a 2nd rounder for Bargs. If I gotta throw in somebody like Jerebko or Singler, so be it. All they can do is say 'no'. ...Or, you can sub Stuckey for the Chuckster and they can simply buy him out for 4 mil. Andrea Bargnani is a former #1 pick and a 20 ppg scorer when healthy. I know we say this every time we look at damaged goods but maybe Arnie can get him right. He's got two long years left on his contract at around 10 mil per year (I think). Chuck-V (or Stuckey), + a pick and filler gives the Raps some cap flexability that they desperately need now that they've added Rudy to the mix. They have some tough decisions to make pretty soon and getting rid of Andrea would be a very popular move among Raptors fans. A roadblock to this deal would be the fact that yesterday, Toronto hired Masai Ujiri as their new GM to replace Bryan Colangelo. Unlike Coloangelo, Ujiri (formerly of the Denver Nuggs) is a VERY smart dude who usually gets the better end of the deal in transactions that he makes. I like the idea of a healthy Bargs with a fresh start coming off the bench. He compliments both G-Money and Drum well along with adding a 3-pt shooter to the Pistons' offense. Here's an article that might provide some context as to the level of "quality" that Raps might be expecting in return for the services of Barnani: New Raptors GM to prioritize trading Andrea Bargnani | NBA | Toronto Raptors
also, charlie had some good years there. maybe they have some misplaced nostalgia?
Get ready for a very long-winded tirade from KGREG refuting your post.
...No. I can totally see how someone would be against the idea of adding Andrea Barnani to the Pistons mix. The dude is injury prone and makes too much money based on his last 2 (injury plagued) seasons. I'm trying to be real about the fact that Joe isn't going to use the amnesty clause on Charlie. I absolutely do NOT want Charlie in a Pistons' uniform next year. The same goes for Stuckey (we can spend $4 mil and rid ourselves of Rodney. ...cool, DO IT). Paul Millsap isn't coming to the D to back-up Greg Monroe. If we can somehow turn the expiring contract of BoT into Andrea Barnani? ...why NOT? Positives: - Charlie is gone and we don't have to see him in Pistons gear anymore. - Detroit gets a shooter; ...we need shooters! - The deal decreases the possibility of Charlie being the 1st big man off the bench next season (this scares me man!) - Bargnani has a LOT to prove and he'll be hungry. He'd be playing for his next contract from day one. - We'd have a bonified 3rd big dude off the bench who compliments our other bigs about as good as you can. - substantial; upside while being a relatively low-risk move (the worst case scenario doesn't cripple you). Negatives: - It essentially adds an extra year to the cap slot that Charlie currently occupies and eliminates a little bit of flexability. - we might have to throw in a 2nd tier player and/or 2nd round pick.
I'd rather have Chaz than Bargs on the roster.
I'd rather have acne than leprosy.
To clarify for the slow Avalanche fans, this thread is about taking Toronto's first round pick in return for taking Bargs off their hands, kinda like the Ben Gordon trade for us.
To clear up any delusions put forth by certain remidial members of the Jimmer Fredette fan club, Masai Ujiri's first order of business as new GM isn't going to be giving away cheap talent in the form of draft picks. Here's two things that he won't be doing: 1. giving away a pick to take Bargnani. Toronto needs it's picks!; (not to mention, I don't even think that they CAN trade a 1st rounder away due to the fact that this years first rounder was traded to OKC (via Houston). I think it's against the rules for teams to trade away consecutive 1st round picks) 2. using the amnesty clause on Bargnani (They aren't gonna shell out $22 mil to get rid of him) They're gonna have to take something back. They only have 3 bigs signed next year and 1 of 'em is just a little bit foul prone so they're gonna need some depth at PF/C. A package featuring Charlie would allow them to cut their losses in half while picking up some additional cheap assets (2nd rounders, Singler?, English? TRG?) As a Pistons fan, I'm only down with this trade if it allows us to get rid of CV. I'd prefer to not have Stuckey involved in this deal because I'd like to simply hand him his $4 million dollar buyout and let him go play in China. I wouldn't want to take Bargnani for free unless Gores amnesty's Charlie (Gores is rich so who cares. I just want cap room so the team has a chance to be good.) I DON'T want the risk of re-habbing Bargnani while STILL being sddled with the contracts of Stuckey and/or Charlie. An NBA team can only afford to have one bad contract on it's books at a time. IMO, former #1 pick 7-footer who has 20ppg talent is worth the minimal risk.
You gotta love it that regardless of how the thread title is interpreted, this trade is impossible because of poor decisions made by both of the teams' GMs.
I'd rather dump Rodney and CV in exchange for their burden......... rather than take their 2014 1st round pick........ The immediate gratification of dumping those two would be reward enough. Instead of waiting a year......and having CV and Rodney play this coming season........
Yeah man. I don't think that Joe is as big of an idiot as Bryan Colangelo was but his moves over the last 3-4 years certainly don't help make his case. Since Gores took over, I think he's been better and I hope he continues to climb back to respectability. Having to "GM" against Masai Ujiri instead of Colangelo just made it a little tougher to snag a playoff spot in the Eastern Conference. I expect Toronto to be a well-managed team moving forward and their record will likely show the result of this.
I can't believe that I actually spent a portion of my afternoon championing the idea of Bringing Andrea Bargnani to Detroit. Holy crap is this roster in need of some help!
Stuckey+CV for Bargnani is a lopsided trade that is doing Toronto a big favor, allowing them to dump Bargnani's contract for nothing. Toronto won't be able to trade away Bargnani without including picks or other quality players. CJ is right, they are in a very similar boat we were in with Ben Gordon. The problem is Toronto doesn't have any draft picks this year. So, Bargs+Ross for Stuckey+CV+JJ would be a workable trade IMO. CV+Stuck straight up for Bargs doesn't make sense. Both CV and Stuckey have trade value next year.
I consider the two players a cancer in the locker room. Their removal would refresh the roster.
This is the big part of this. We are not going to be signing Andre Iguodola, Millsap, Smith or any marquee FA's this year. Forget about it. The best we can do it is make some talent bank via smart trades. Danny Granger was mentioned - I think this is possible but unlikely. I also love the idea. I don't really care what we have to give away as long as it isn't one of the good pieces. I'd keep Middleton and Singler off the table along with the core players. Everyone else is fair game. But here is the thing - Bargnani doesn't even have to play at a high level, he just has to keep defenses honest. It's why having Charlie on the floor is almost worth his cringeworthy defense. Because you can't leave a shooter open especially with a quick release. But Charlie has killed his ties to Detroit with his stupid remarks about picking up the last year of his contract. The worst case scenario is that we end up with another Charlie who has a better inside game and a more length. Losing BoT and Stuckey to get this guy isn't just a good decision, it's a complete no brainer for me. We shave $5m in salary, $1m guaranteed. Cap Spayce doesn't play ball. And we lose two of the worst influences in the locker room. I'd rather give Maggette a 5yr contract than have Stuckey or BoT hang around.
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