1. PF.com is also on Facebook. Follow/Like us Here.
    Dismiss Notice

Andre Drummond thread

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by webz, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    32,109
    Likes Received:
    12,759
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thule
    Very interesting stuff.

    I'd argue that because we leave the defensive rebounding to Dre, we slow our team down and lose a lot of open jumper and transition opportunities.

    RJ helped cover it up last year by giving us a decent half court P&R game. Without RJ, Dre is a pace killer.

    You can see this when we played Baynes, who was a + player most of the time, despite lacking Dre's athleticism. All it takes is hustle up and down the court, and setting serious screens to be a plus player for the Pistons at the 5. You can do it with stone hands and ZERO hops.

    Maybe stone hands and zero hops helps. Baynes plays within himself. You don't see him taking shots outside his range.
     
    tirtep likes this.
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    21,040
    Likes Received:
    8,444
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Well, at least he had some range.
     
    tirtep and roscoe36 like this.
  3. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    23,216
    Likes Received:
    13,692
    Location:
    Michigan
    With all his rebounds, Drummond never gives you a quick outlet pass. He always holds it for a couple of seconds and then this year, for whatever reason, he started underhand passing all his outlet passes.
     
    tirtep and roscoe36 like this.
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    21,040
    Likes Received:
    8,444
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    That's coaching.
     
    round and roscoe36 like this.
  5. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    8,048
    Likes Received:
    3,665
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    Maybe they're just taking baby steps toward underhand FT's?
     
    roscoe36, TaS and tirtep like this.
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    32,109
    Likes Received:
    12,759
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thule
    Yeah, the missed FTs are coaching too. LOL

    At this rate, we might see a 50% FT shooter in 2020.
     
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    21,040
    Likes Received:
    8,444
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Missed FTs are highly correlated to NBA championships. Russell, Wilt, Shaq, and Rodman have 21 Championships between them and are 4 of the worst FT shooters in history.

    Per 36 (Russell/ Drummond)
    Points: 12.8/ 16.1
    FG%: 44.0%/ 54.8%
    FTA: 5.0/ 5.6
    FTM: 2.8/ 2.1
    Reb: 19.1/ 15.5

    So, per 36 minutes, Dre gets 0.6 more free throw attempts than the great Bill Russell and makes 0.7 fewer. Would that be the difference between 11 rings and 0 or might the rest of the team have more to do with the ultimate success?
     
    roscoe36 likes this.
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    21,040
    Likes Received:
    8,444
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Just saying that it wouldn't be that hard to tell a player to outlet more quickly. SVG obviously doesn't value that. He's also a coach who doesn't believe in gambling for steals. He might panic if Dre quickly outletted and risked turning it over.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    32,109
    Likes Received:
    12,759
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thule
    Yeah, every time a player plays bad it is because SVG didn't specifically tell them not to do it ...

    I am old enough to remember when SVG told Pope to drink and drive.
     
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    21,040
    Likes Received:
    8,444
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Are you serious? You think that SVG wants Drummond to outlet more quickly and is too shy to tell him to do it? It's way more likely that SVG preaches taking care of the ball and Drummond makes sure that he has a safe pass to his point guard. This is some serious nitpicking. The Pistons played at a very slow pace in the Larry Brown era. They play at close to an NBA average pace now.

    Outletting quickly after a defensive rebound
    Pros:
    Gets a pseudo fast break with only 4 to 5 defenders awaiting in defensive position

    Cons:
    Increases the probability of turning the ball over and allowing an immediately uncontested layup or dunk


    The best way to ignite a fast break is through a steal, which Drummond does about as well as anyone in the league.


    I'll just conclude with a quote this season from Ben Wallace regarding Dre:
    That kid has got an unbelievable amount of talent. He’s young, he’s hungry, and he’s got talent. Now he’s just got to go out there night in and night out and find that comfort zone and wreak havoc on the floor.

    So, Ben Wallace thinks that Dre needs to find a comfort zone. How much time have we spent debating here on ways that Dre can get more comfortable?
     
    roscoe36 likes this.
  11. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    23,216
    Likes Received:
    13,692
    Location:
    Michigan
    I agree that the slow outlet is the responsibility of the coaches. They must value the possession over the chance of a turnover.
     
    roscoe36 likes this.
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    8,048
    Likes Received:
    3,665
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    All Van Gundy thinks about is making Drummond comfortable. That's why he has him sitting on the bench all the time.
     
    roscoe36 likes this.
  13. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    23,216
    Likes Received:
    13,692
    Location:
    Michigan
    At 2409 minutes, Drummond played the 11th most minutes of all centers in the NBA this season.
     
    roscoe36 likes this.
  14. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,730
    Likes Received:
    1,822
    How about the quality of those minutes. At the start and the end.
    The opening minutes of the game and they look like a high school team: can we make the first shot?
    The closing minutes of the game: everyone is nervous if Dre is still playing at the 3 minute mark.
    BenW is being very generous with his comments. Find himself? Dre is still waiting for his shadow to catch up with him.
    Stan lost a whole year because of his maniacal stubbornness. Again, this trait is providing a comfort zone thinking that his idealized perseverance:
    will flip-the-switch within this team's mental makeup.
    Both the Center and the PG have little upstairs. Adaptable athleticism is the key with this very slow ball club.
    Only Ish can catch the wind.
    We don't need another 6-10+guy who looks good shooting and caustically making a three.
    With the latter, they are everywhere now.
     
    roscoe36, tirtep and basketbills like this.
  15. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    6,638
    Likes Received:
    4,989
    Gender:
    Male
    A lot of very interesting analysis here from several different people. It all points to the same thing. We have an elite rebounder who does little else. Drummond is as one-dimensional as they get at the moment. Drummond-the-potential is a monster of a player who's light years ahead of where Drummond-the-player is right now.
     
    roscoe36 and tirtep like this.
  16. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    6,638
    Likes Received:
    4,989
    Gender:
    Male
    About the only thing Drummond has in common with those guys is that they all wore sneakers on the court.

    I've never watched Russell or Wilt. But I did watch Rodman. His level of competitiveness was amazing. He was able to lock down any opposing player. One of the most amazing players to ever play the game. I also watched Shaq in his prime. No team had an answer for him. He dominated every team and every game, from start to finish.

    The only thing Drummond seems to dominate consistently is Twitter.
     
    roscoe36 and tirtep like this.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    21,040
    Likes Received:
    8,444
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Little else besides scoring, steals, about 100 screens set per game, drawing fouls, and incredible durability.
     
    roscoe36 likes this.
  18. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    6,638
    Likes Received:
    4,989
    Gender:
    Male
    100 screens per game. That's 8200 screens. Yet, about 3 were effective.

    He's not an offensive genius. Monroe was/is a better scorer than him. He has one move and he can't even execute that very well. Someone like Drummond should be a dominant scorer down low. He's not.

    He still has tremendous potential. But, he's not improving. If this is truly his ceiling, we are getting fleeced with his contract.
     
    roscoe36, basketbills and tirtep like this.
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    21,040
    Likes Received:
    8,444
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    OK, so Monroe is a better scorer, but scores 2 points less per game and has a worse career FG%? How does that work? We talking style points or something?

    Dre is also 7th in points in the paint and 3rd in 2nd chance points (in the league).
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
    The Panda and roscoe36 like this.
  20. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,565
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Effective low post scorers have either a strong power game using their weight/leverage or they have excellent footwork to get their defender off balance or right by them. Some also have a fadeaway/face-up jumper. Elite players have all 3.
    Monroe doesn't have the power or the jumpshot, but he has the footwork, which is enough to make him effective. Unfortunately Drummond doesn't have any of the 3. Just one would make a noticeable difference to his offensive game.
     
    Mogilny, roscoe36, Walter and 2 others like this.

Share This Page