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Andre Drummond thread

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by webz, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. tirtep

    tirtep All-Star

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    My point is:

    Wouldn't be better for Drummond to play with Monroe than with this "pleiade" of so-called power forward players?
     
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  2. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Pleiade? What does that even mean? I think I'm done with this board, you guys are sounding like a bunch of bitter old men living in the past.
     
  3. tirtep

    tirtep All-Star

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    Ha ha! You too.....? :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017 at 10:28 AM
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  4. junior

    junior All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Did you ever watch Moose and Dre play together? It was a @$%& show.
     
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  5. tirtep

    tirtep All-Star

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    Not worse than this year's show.

    I don't say that's a perfect duo, I think it's better than this current alternative, though.

    However, again, Drummond needs to be paired up with a real power forward, not necessarily Monroe who by the way, is a center himself.

    Drummond is our franchise player. Give him a chance to excel....if he can. That's all.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017 at 10:49 AM
  6. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If you look at the end of the 2015-16 season when Reggie was healthy, the Pistons went on a 17-9 run to finish the year. The system of Dre/Reggie pick-and-roll with 3-point shooters giving them space seemed to be working.
     
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  7. tirtep

    tirtep All-Star

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    We all were happy with that. It was a miracle. This year proved it to be more a kind of a mirage.

    For some reason we played with more enthusiasm last year.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017 at 11:14 AM
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  8. Nemo

    Nemo Over 60 Club Forum Donor

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    With 4,200 posts...you cannot leave.
    heck...you're ranked 24th all time most posts.
    Buddah-fan would be very sad.............

    BTW..."bitter old men living in the past".....gets you 2 out of three for me....
     
  9. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm a sweet young man living in the future.
     
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  10. SirKeeper

    SirKeeper Bench Warmer

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    Hahaha in Spain a "pléyade" Who comes from the greek is a group of Seven things or people Who stand out in something or a group of stars (normaly 7) in a constellation

    So this draft must be full of good players

    Enviado desde mi Mi-4c mediante Tapatalk
     
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  11. Nemo

    Nemo Over 60 Club Forum Donor

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    [​IMG]
     
  12. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm a man-child.

    But in case you were serious, don't go!
     
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  13. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm not.
     
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  14. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I am not my body. I am not my mind. I am that which observes their moment by moment fluctuations and that of the world around them.
     
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  15. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Same with me.
     
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  16. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Was curious to see if there is any evidence behind the 'empty rebound' theory that some are proposing about Drummond.

    I put some filters in to get rid of the guys who don't play much (min. 20 games played, 15 mins per game).

    We all know Drummond's overall rebounding average (13.8) which put him second in the league. But what else?

    He led the league in Contested rebounds (5.9) which already seems to contradict the empty rebound theory.
    He was 4th in Uncontested rebounds (7.9), behind Westbrook (8.5), Jordan (8.4) and Whiteside (8.3). Westbrook is the outlier here, the top 12 are all big men apart from him.
    He was 3rd in Rebound Chances (21.6) which is defined as being within 3.5ft of a rebound. He was 19th in Rebound Chance % which measures how many of those available chances he converts into a rebound. This seems to give some mixed results. Leading the category is Sergio Rodriguez, a PG - converting 72.7% of his 3.2 chances per game. Baynes is at 46%, but is this due to being a poor rebounder or boxing out his man correctly, allowing a teammate to snipe in for the rebound. Vantage Sports used to track boxouts and missed boxouts stats, but they don't seem to do them anymore and can't find them anywhere else.

    And some defensive stats:
    Among Centers, Drummond was 29th in opponent fast break points at 6.5 per game. Towns and Cousins were clearly the worst, giving up 11.0 and 10.8 points per game respectively.
    Among Centers, Drummond was 23rd in opponent 2nd chance points at 6.6 per game. Towns once again was the worst culprit, giving up 10.3 2nd chance points per game.
    Among Centers, Drummond was 14th in opponent points in the paint at 26.8 per game. Towns again(!) was the worst culprit, giving up 35.7 opposition points in the paint per game.

    Comparing to our backup Centers using per/36 numbers:
    Opponent fast break points: Drummond 7.9, Baynes 8.4, Boban 8.6
    Opponent 2nd chance points: Boban 4.8 (team best), Baynes 7.7, Drummond 8.0
    Opponent points in the paint: Boban 25.0 (team best), Baynes 28.4, Drummond 32.4 (team worst)
    Defensive rating: Baynes 98.5 (6th best in league), Boban 102.4, Drummond 108.9
     
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  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I view guards as the defenders of the fast break... which is why it's frowned upon for them to gamble for offensive rebounds. The center usually has the furthest to run and is the slowest player. The turnovers that ignite fast breaks usually happen on the perimeter. We were about, if not the best at limiting fast breaks as a team.

    On defensive rating, I think there is a bit of a divide between bench and starters on both ends of the court. Our starters are in a higher scoring environment with the Currys/ Lebrons/ Westbrooks/ and Hardens of the world. I attempted to see how Baynes fared against other starting centers at one point to test and it wasn't pretty. However, it was only something like a 20 game sample and added up to relatively low minutes. Also, there was usually a mix of starters and bench other than the opposing center.

    I do personally think that Baynes played the toughest D of our 3 centers in terms of strength and positioning. I just can't tell how much he gives up in reach, flatfootedness, etc. Ideally, I'd do the full year regression with bench/starter opponents with both him and Dre.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017 at 8:22 AM
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  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I can't claim to be able to make a strong case for or against empty rebounds.

    But I do know what my lying eyes see. I see a big man who gets left alone to grab easy defensive boards as his teammates all move up court, and he takes 2 years to get over the half line himself killing any chance at putting pressure on the opposing defense.

    Dre does work hard on the offensive boards WHEN HE IS ENGAGED. After the All-Star break this year, it was hit or miss night to night whether he would battle for rebounds.

    I don't know a better way to articulate this, but if he is such a great rebounder and we lost so many games, then it seems to me that rebounding may not be that important relative to other aspects of the game, or maybe his rebounds are empty. I am open to other possible conclusions, by no means do I consider these 2 the only ones available.

    I am serious. Someone please tell me why a guy can be a great rebounder on a losing team and why those rebounds matter except as rebounds qua rebounds. What is the value of a rebound to the end product (final score)?
     
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  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Not sure if this means anything or not, but here are the top rebounders and how their team did this season:

    1. Whiteside 14.1 Miami -> No playoffs
    2. Drummond 13.8 Detroit -> No playoffs
    3. Jordan 13.8 Clippers -> #4 West seed
    4. Gorbert 12.8 Utah -> #5 West seed
    5. Howard 12.7 Atlanta -> #5 East seed
    6. Towns 12.3 TWolves -> No playoffs
    7. Davis 11.8 Pelicans -> No playoffs
    8. Chandler 11.5 Suns -> No playoffs
    9. Love 11.1 Cleveland -> #2 East seed
    10. Cousins 11.0 Pelicans -> No playoffs

    None of the top 4 teams (Warriors, Spurs, Rockets, Celtics) made the list.
     
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  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Rebounds allowed us to almost make the playoffs with about the worst shooting true percentage in modern basketball. They made our defense adequate and gave us 2nd chance points.

    We just needed better point guard play.
     
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