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Andre Drummond thread

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by webz, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. del

    del All-Star Forum Donor

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    Would be interested to know if he tried standing further away from the line like that article someone posted a good while back. It just looks like he has to finesse it too much and he loses all control.
     
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  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That would probably help. That's why a lot of strong guys are good on the fade aways as they can put some acceleration into their stroke without shooting long.

    Maybe if there was no max contract ceiling, he would have felt the financial sting from his poor FT shooting. As it is, he didn't lose any money because of it. Not saying that he hasn't worked at it, but I like it when the incentives are aligned.
     
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  3. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  4. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I do agree that Drummond is a special player, even in his current state.
    I do agree that if we ran more of the offense through him, we will have better success. He really should be the focus of our offense when he's on the court.
    I really believe that he can get so much better, but I also can see that the drive just isn't there.

    Now, that being said, Moose was brought up. He had exactly the same issue that Drummond has. Super talent already when he came in the league, did nothing to improve gaping holes in his game. There is no difference between Moose not being able to develop a reliable mid-range shot vs Drummond not being able to hit his fritos. Both are great players who put up good numbers that don't translate into wins for their teams. The difference is Drummond has more talent and Moose has more brains.
     
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  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm not sure running offense through Drummond is the answer. He is not a great passer. He averages 1.0 assists per game.

    His teammates are not great at getting Dre the ball when he actually is open.

    I'm not sure Monroe is any smarter than Drummond either.
     
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  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    How good can RPM be if it has Baynes as 38th and Zaza as 3rd?

    Is Nogueira going to get a max contract?
     
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  7. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Well, if you sort by Win Shares, Drummond ranks 24th among centers.
     
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  8. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If you want to dig deeper, you can easily argue that Drummond isn't even the best Andre the NBA has ever seen. Here we compare Andre's 4th season (2015-16) to all the other Andre's 4th seasons.

    upload_2017-3-3_15-6-3.png

    The scary one to me is the TS%. Barely above that of career brick-layer Andre Miller and behind other brick-layer Roberson.

    The VORP figure shows that if your 'Andre' goes down, you are much better replacing your Andre with an Iguodala or a Kirilenko.
    upload_2017-3-3_15-7-19.png
     
  9. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Well he is currently #2 in defensive win shares in the NBA, across all positions, just behind Rudy Gobert.

    I'll admit, I have been way too harsh on Drummond. I will qualify that by saying that I honestly believe that he could be materially better than what he is right now!

    It says a lot about him as a player that he is able to put up efficient buckets, even in the face of adversity in the form of a team which probably doesn't include him as much as they should.

    Maybe the talent on the team, outside of Dre, is just much sparser than we originally thought? This argument probably starts and ends with Reggie Jackson...
     
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    And he's #1 on the Pistons in Win Shares.

    If you add up all the win shares on the Pistons it equals 29. The Pistons are currently 29-32. It all makes sense.

    How many other guys lead their team's in WS, but have no heart, no motor, show no improvement, aren't intelligent, make a show of grabbing easy rebounds, are easy covers, throw up junk, and don't meet the eye test? This is just familiarity breeding contempt.

    Out of 30 teams in the NBA, 14 teams have more wins. We are average and it is frustrating. All eyes go to the guy who misses 2.7 free throws per game. If he could only shoot free throws at a .667 clip like Stanely Johnson or even a .690 clip like Ish Smith, we would be 1.4 points per game better and we'd be threatening CLE for Eastern conference supremacy.

    It's hard to believe that the Pistons lead the league in 2 point FG makes since we play at an average pace. However, we are 2nd to last in 3-point makes and 2nd to last in free throw attempts. That to me sounds like a problem that is somehow separate from Dre. Dre has almost 100 more FT attempts than the 2nd player on the team, and we are still almost last in the league. That means that the entire rest of our lineup is anemic at getting to the line. That is a red flag for too much settling, lack of effort.

    And from the arc, we are like an early 90's team. Besides KCP, who leads the team in 3P makes and 3P% by a large margin (and who coincidentally has drawn most of the forum criticism for our poor offense and the guy to trade for a better shooter), we kind of suck. Our starting stretch PF is shooting a late Sheed-like .302 from 3-point range. Our backup PG shoots .233 from deep and has actually played the bulk of the minutes at PG this year- 300 more than Reggie. Stanley is checking in at .313. Bullock is getting sporadic PT, but is only at .313.

    Morris and Harris are some serious volume shooters from deep with 515 attempts, but with a combined average of about .342. That is worse than Iguadola.

    Almost the entire roster of the Cavs shoots a higher percentage from deep: Korver .504, Frye .399, Lebron .389, Liggins .386, Love .384, Irving .382, Shumpert .381, Williams .375, Smith .362, McRae .353, Dunleavy .351, Felder .350. They only player on the Cavs with a worse percentage is Tristan Thompson.


    We have a lot of mid range guys. The entire league has tried to abandon that. I don't think this is what SVG was trying to construct.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
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  11. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Was one last night by Ajinga?
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    He has improved. But not enough IMO.

    From his Draft Express profile

    Despite possessing a significant size and bulk advantage on pretty much every big man he matched up against this season, Drummond was not very physical looking to assert himself inside the paint. He doesn't do a good enough job using his thick frame to carve out space on the block and make himself a target, and isn't one to put his hands in the air and aggressively call for an entry pass.

    Even when wide open and cutting to the rim, it's tough to tell if Drummond actually wants the ball sometimes based on his body language, especially in games where things don't seem to be going his way.

    Some of this might have to do with his struggles from the free throw line, where he converts an abysmal 29.5% of his attempts. This actually became a bigger issue as the year moved on, as he made just 18% of his attempts over the last 10 games of the season.​

    Source: DraftExpressProfile: Andre Drummond, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

    To be fair, I did leave out the following paragraph about his non-existent post game, which we know he has now developed.
     
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  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It is amazing that a guy with a draft profile saying that he shied away from the ball and wasn't physical could lead the league in scoring within 12 feet of the basket. Also amazing that he boosted his FT% by almost 20%.

    I guess that is how you go from a #9 pick to a max contract by the age of 23. What an ascent.

    Most 2012 NBA draft re-dos have him going 2nd or 3rd. 2012 NBA Re-Draft: Forgot About Dray – Points from the Key
     
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  14. Cardono

    Cardono Bench Warmer

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    How can you take that article seriously when they put Festus at number 6?
     
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Festus Izeli has one of the all-time great names in the NBA.
     
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  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I forgot that we got Middleton in that draft as well. What a job of research by the org to pull off 2 massive coups in one draft. Unfortunately, we later blew it with KM.
     
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Makes sense. 16.2 and 17.7 PERs before his injury. No Piston is at that level, except Dre.
     
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  18. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    If the most reliable scoring option we have is feeding Drummond in the post, we have to do it more. There are long stretches in games where Dre just jogs up and down the court for 3-4 possessions straight where he doesn't touch the ball.

    I disagree that the team doesn't feed him the ball in the post. Especially KCP and Leuer look for him a lot. Watch either one of those guys when they have the ball outside the arc. As soon as Dre makes a move towards the basket, they try to find him with an entry pass.

    Reggie is our biggest problem right now. Not because he's a bad player. He is a very good player. Just not a good fit.
     
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  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'd love to see Dre be serious about his post game. Stop pouting every time he misses. Crash those boards and dunk the miss.

    Remember that Dre? MIA for the most part this year.
     
  20. C-Bill

    C-Bill All-Star

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    Last game 'Dre had a few and-1s and I was wondering if he is even glad to get the and-1 or would he prefer the two points with no foul/no freethrow. It is a very bizarre thought, but I wonder.
     
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