8 Months Later Monroe or Cousins

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Feb 5, 2011.

  1. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Greg Monroe=James Edwards, now before some of y'all go crazy keep in mind Buddha is 13 & 5 guy for AN 18 YEAR CAREER, good, steady player that every team needs to win a title.

    Said it before, say it again, Greg Monroe is A guy you need to become a contender, Cousins has the ceiling to be THE guy on a contender, whether he does or not depends on his brain, not his game.

    Oh and BTW since some wanna kill Cousins about FG%, answer me this, what is Greg Monroe's FG% on shots he creates for himself? Out of the post or shooting a J, or taking it to the hoop? Greg gets offensive rebounds (which I'm happy to see) and gets spoon fed. Now don't get me wrong, knowing how to get open to catch and finish is a legit skill for a big man, because Maxiel, CV and BigBen seem to be very clueless to the concept.

    All that said, I LIKE GREG MONROE AND I'M GLAD HE'S A PISTON!
     
  2. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Centers in the East clearly better than what we think Monroe's ceiling is:

    Howard.

    That's it.

    I like Bogut. Horford's really a PF playing out of position, but even if he's at center, Monroe's ceiling has him as good at C as either of those guys. Noah, I like a lot (except for the I hate him part), is an all-star caliber C, but I don't see him necessarily having a higher ceiling than Monroe. Lopez has become a lousy player this season - a huge disappointment in NJ, but even assuming he rebounds, Monroe compares well to him.

    (KG, Josh Smith, etc. are clearly NOT centers - never have been, never will be).
     
  3. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Brap, the guys you mentioned are way ahead of Monroe and he still needs to prove he may compete with any of them. We'll see, I truly hope so, but I think he'll be more of a 12, 9 guy that doesn't block shots. Solid, but not an all star. Or does anyone here know one game in which he has shown flashes of being able to do what any of the mentioned C's brings any given night?
     
  4. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Uh, well you really can't compare him to Cousins who has been given the green light to shoot AND playing time from day one. Monroe has been eased into his role.
     
  5. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Those guys have all been in the league for years and their primes won't coincide with Monroe's prime. And at center, it's pretty thin after Howard, Horford and Noah.
     
  6. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Funny, while all 3 of those centers are on very good teams, the only one in contention is Noah and it's because he plays with an MVP caliber POINT GUARD. Note to Gores and Dumars, do whatever is necessary to attract and sign CP3 or D-Will.
     
  7. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    yeah without a super point to run this team, we will finish behind the Celtics, Heat, Bulls, Magic, Hawks, Knicks, Bobcats and the Nets for the next 5-7 years,:yellowprison:
     
  8. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Monroe has - by quite a margin, I think - the 2nd best PER for rookies after the month of November, when he was around an 8.0.
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Cousins has a bad J too. .300 level. That's worse than Ben Wallace and Jason Maxiell.

    But to be honest, I really can't tell what kind of jump shot Monroe has because he gets blocked on 23% of his attempts outside the paint. If every single one of those would have gone in, then he might be a 45% jump shooter.

    How do you give a guy the green light when he's statistically more likely to get blocked (23%) than to make the shot (22%)? Not sure there's another player in the league with this ratio... or even close.

    Darko is the closest I can find with .316 shooting and 16% blocked when he's outside the paint. Still a positive 2:1 ratio.
     
  10. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Monroe has also taken very few attempts outside the paint too. That block percentage is an aberration, though he does have a slow release.
     
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    75 shot attempts from outside the paint.

    16 went in!

    17 were blocked.

    42 missed long, short, left, or right.


    This sample size is roughly the same as the number of 3-point attempts TMac has this year.
     
  12. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    You're working overtime on your Monroe-disrespect thang.

    Pretty much everyone disagrees with you. His stats are really quite strong for a rookie since November. His stats also don't speak to the fact that he's instinctively strong and knows how to play and position himself, or the fact that he makes a lot of winning BB plays on the court, or the fact that he's a young leader and works really hard.
     
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I like him, I'm not arguing that he's not a good player. Just pointing out that there is very little evidence to suggest that he will develop a jump shot. Also, I don't think he's going to be an all-star (hardly a damning critique).

    I "hope" he will become a good jump shooter. As long as I'm going there, I'll wish that he develops a 3 bomb to rival Larry Bird's. Maybe he'll get that consistent half court shot that some of our fellow forumites have mastered.

    And the worst thing that I can say about the guy is absolutely true... he had more jump shots blocked in his NBA career than makes.

    Reversing that stat is step one on his road to all-star status.
     
  14. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    In case someone wants to attribute a Greg Monroe = All Star quote to me; All I said was "It's not out of the question".

    ...It could happen.
    ...Is it likely?
    ...no.
     
  15. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Be satisfied that he made the rookie all-star challenge team and improves enough to make the sophomore team next season.
     
  16. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree with pretty much everything you said except that. He's a soft-spoken rookie. He's no leader. He's trying to learn right now, which really is what he should be doing.

    A rookie's stats will vary greatly from month to month unless he's unquestionably a stud (like Griffin). I wouldn't pay any attention to his overall stats from this year. Perhaps measure month by month to see if there's any incremental progress. That looks like this for Monroe (not counting October where he played only 7 minutes in 1 game):

    MPG /FG% /FT% /RPG/APG/SPG/BPG/PPG
    Nov: 17.8/.354/.458/4.9/1.0/0.7/0.4/ 3.8
    Dec: 21.8/.515/.550/5.3/0.7/0.7/0.5/ 6.1
    Jan: 32.7/.602/.618/8.9/0.9/1.7/0.4/10.9
    Feb: 33.6/.586/.571/7.0/1.2/0.6/0.8/10.4

    His assists, steals and blocks have not changed much, but there's no denying the improvement in FG%, FT%, RPG and PPG. He went from a 4 & 5 guy to a 10 & 7 guy in the course of 4 months while improving his FG%. Yes, there is hope that this guy will get better with time. He probably won't ever become a monster dunker or a big time shot blocker. But, that's ok if he can improve other aspects of his game.

    On the non-stat side, his composure and confidence has definitely improved and he's definitely smarter around the basket. His help defense is also improving everyday.
     
  17. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    It's only a matter of time before we start a Greg Monroe Appreciation Thread.
     
  18. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yep either we start it soon or wait until he leaves a FA in three years and stars on the Knicks, Heat, Lakers, Bulls or Clippers team.
     
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Just to give an overall status update on where we are at the center position.

    In terms of NBA centers, Monroe ranks:
    29th in FG%
    31st in scoring
    31st in rebounding
    31st in assists
    9th in steals (Ben Wallace is 6th)
    60th in blocks
    69th in FT%
    33rd in overall efficiency

    In terms of rookies, Monroe basically ranks 6-10 in most statistical categories... i.e. he's playing to his draft position, so it is not surprising that he's not higher on the stat list- especially considering he hasn't been a starter from the get-go. For some reason, it took Kuester a while to realize that this kid was clearly our best option down low.

    Overall at the center position this year, Detroit is:
    21st in FG%
    29th in scoring (with only Miami behind us)
    8th in rebounding... not too shabby
    15th in assists
    #1 in steals!!!! with a slow pace and not a running game, that's insane. This is probably the best stat for both Ben and Greg.
    27th in blocks... a clear sign Big Ben is losing his hops
    28th in FT%
    25th in overall efficiency

    Defensively, we're about the 8th worst defensive team at the center position and we give up the 2nd highest FG% to opposing centers... and that's with Ben Wallace sharing minutes.

    Ben's clearly almost out of gas. Just finishing the season healthy and contributing anything on the court will be a huge victory for him. Monroe is a finesse/ American big man (he doesn't come with range). He's going to need a banger to complement him in the near future.
     
  20. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Thanks for the stats Tas.

    Do they have a category for nicest looking J for a big man that have A.) Never gone in the hoop or B.) Never been taken which seems to be where GM shines.

    These stats seem slightly biased towards shots that have been taken and/or been successful.
     

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