8 Months Later Monroe or Cousins

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Feb 5, 2011.

  1. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Exactly Mr. round. Even guys who love his game like David Thorpe cautioned before the draft that they wouldn't touch this guy because of his documented bad attitude and immaturity.

    From what I've read, other players think he's the most immature player they've seen come into this league.
     
  2. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    The problem is, college ball is when those issues get sorted out. Once a kid hits the NBA, and is as talented as Cousins, then the dollars start pouring in and their ego gets bigger and bigger. It usually goes down the other way; the problem child becomes a lunatic grown-up.

    If he wasn't a lottery pick, a strong NBA coach could bring him in-line by making him understand that in order to get somewhere in the league, he needs to clean up his act. When you're a talented kid like Cousins, everything is handed to you on a silver platter. For every strong NBA personality that tries to influence Cousins for the good, there will be 10 others who'd tell him that it's somebody else's fault.
     
  3. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    We've heard for years about this or that athlete having to grow up and mature. It never seems to happen for them.
     
  4. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I'm pretty stoked on Monroe at this point but I guess my expectations are pretty tempered due to the performance of recent rookies (excepting Jeb) over the past 10 years or so. I'm enthused that Joe picked a good guy who is showing improvement and some hoop IQ. It's not out of the question that Greg Monroe could be an all-star some day.

    Someone made the comparison of D-Cuz to Derrick Coleman. That's a pretty good observation. I tend to root for the home-grown Michigan kids but I couldn't ever get behind DC. I always thought he was a jackass (even during his AWESOME Pistons tenure).
     
  5. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I think he did; he never got quiet but he became some sort of leader and won a ship
     
  6. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It seems very improbable. He doesn't fit the mold.

    Maybe if Laimbeer was coaching him...
     
  8. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Being a jackass who can dunk will get you in the all-star game much faster than a good attitude, high IQ, and play below the rim.
     
  9. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    C.J. you left yourself WIDE open on that one. I'm not touching it. No Sir. Not touching that. :pound:
     
  10. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    It's highly likely that Monroe will add a strong 15 foot jump shot to his game, that his great passing ability will shine in the high post, and that he'll develop his body (strength and some more explosion) and his game to be a really good low post scorer and passer. He's already showing he'll be a top rebounder and really good defender. He's also shown great maturity and BB IQ and work ethic (- work ethic is shown via the reports we're reading). Within 2 or 3 seasons he's going to be one of the most complete centers/big men in the game.

    Yeah - that's an all-star quality player. No doubt in my mind.

    Yeah
     
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He shoots .229 outside of the paint.

    6.4 rebounds per game (compared to Jason Kidd's career average of 6.5).


    On any Pistons team from 2003 to 2008, he wouldn't have received any playing time at all.

    I'm really glad he's playing and having some nice games, but there really haven't been any all-star flashes whatsoever.

    1 game with > 16 points??? That's not very impressive. Cousins has done it 19 times.
    2 games with > 13 rebounds?? Good for a Pistons rookie, but every big should have a few of those in the course of a season. Cousins has done it 4 times.
    6 games in his career with more than 1 blocked shot... and he's never had a 3 block game.
    He has about as many dunks as Will Bynum on the season.


    Kevin love has more double doubles in a row than just about any player in the last 30 years and he barely squeaked into the all-star game with the commissioner pick(?).

    You don't make all-star games by playing in Detroit, having a low key unselfish mindset, playing average defense, and having flat offensive games without any dunks or flair.
     
  12. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Pretty harsh review. I can't agree with any of it. Just about every observer, including pessimistic Pistons fans and national guys like David Thorpe (ESPN Insider and coach) are rating him very highly. All-star of the future ranking is a matter of debate, but it really is clear that this kid is a player and has really fine upside.
     
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    More likely than Cousins though?
     
  14. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Cousins could go 2 very different directions based on on his personality. And for every statistic you pull out to favor Cousins, you'll find one that favor's Monroe. FG% (Cousins is pretty awful for a big that doesn't shoot a bunch of threes), TOs, Fouls, FGA (black-hole effect), etc.

    Comparing these guys based on how many times a guy scores 16+, etc needs to be put in perspective...

    Monroe's career high in FGA is 14, and he's only done it once. Cousins has taken at least 14 FGAs in 23 games this year.

    Let's see what Monroe does if he gets a chance to touch the ball once in a while.
     
  15. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Cousins has great ability from what I've seen - and I'm not sure whether or not Monroe has as high a ceiling. I see them both as future all-stars, BUT, I'd much rather have Monroe, since Cousins will likely never be a great team guy (and instead is heading right into team cancer land).

    I really think we need to wait about 3 years to see how much more athletic and strong Monroe becomes. I predict he's a guy who can develop big time strength - and as his game comes along, I can only imagine how much of a monster he'll become.
     
  16. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Agree.

    He's played solidly and I think he has a good mind for the game. He watches and learns. But, he's got a long way to go physically to be a leading center.

    I hope he makes it, but I think it's more likely he will be a 12 and 8 guy than a 20 / 10 one.
     
  17. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I saw Dwigth Howard when he first came into the league. String bean city. He hit the wieghts hard during his first two years in the league. If Monroe can develop half the conditioning and strength of D Howard, with his skills, we will be in good shape.
     
  18. Fear Laimbeer

    Fear Laimbeer Second Round Draft Pick

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    very good point.. we will have to see this.:stirthepot:
     
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Let's just assume that the talent level in the all-star game going forward stays constant for argument's sake.

    That means that for a future Monroe to make the all-star game, future Monroe will have to be better than at least one of the following players:

    Amar'e Staudemire: Drafted out of high school. Rookie of the year. 26/9/3/1/2
    Dwight Howard: Drafted out of high school. #1 overall pick. 5 time NBA rebounding champion. 2 time Defensive Player of the Year. 23/14/1/1/2
    Kevin Garnett: Drafted out of high school. All-star MVP. Regular season MVP. Defensive Player of the Year. 4 time NBA Rebounding champ. NBA Champion. 20/11/4/1/2 for his career.
    Chris Bosh:20/9/2/1/1 for his career. 54% HOF probability.
    All Horford: 16/10/4/1/1. 3rd overall pick. 4th highest offensive rating in the NBA.
    Tim Duncan: #1 overall pick. Made the all-star game his rookie season with 21/12/3/1/3 stats. Rookie of the year. 3 time finals MVP. 2 time league MVP. All-star game MVP. NBA all-defensive team every year he's every played. Top career defensive rating for any active player. HOF probability = 100%. Oh, and 4 ships.
    Pau Gasol: 19/10/4/1/2. 3rd overall pick. Rookie of the year. 2 ships.
    Dirk Nowitzki: 23/8/3/1/1 career stats. League MVP. 10 time all-NBA team. European player of the year for 5 straight years. HOF probability = 95%.
    Blake Griffin: #1 overall pick. All-star game in his rookie year. 22/12/3/1/1. Won the dunk contest by dunking over the official car of the NBA with a gospel choir singing.
    Kevin Love: 5th overall pick. 21/16/2/1/0. Has more consecutive doubles doubles than any players since Moses Malone. Highest rebounding rate since Dennis Rodman with 40%+ from 3-point land.


    Even though Monroe was the 7th overall pick in the draft, there is only one big man in this year's all star game who wasn't drafted before him; Dirk Nowitzki... and he was a foreign player who didn't play NCAA bball. Everybody else was a stud from the get-go.

    So, which of these guys can Monroe possibly be better than if he pans out?

    The only possible answers would be Horford, Love, or Griffin I would think.
     
  20. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Monroe's in the East, so he won't have to compete with Duncan, Griffin etc.

    But, that being said, the other centers/PFs in the east (who are all-star possible) are:

    PF: Josh Smith, KG, Boozer, Bosh, Amare, Elton Brand
    C: Howard, Al Horford, Noah, Bogut, Lopez, Bargnani

    We all know Monroe will never win a popularity contest. It's safe to assume taht LeBron, Amare and Howard are the starters for the Eastern All Stars for the foreseable future.

    That means, Monroe will have to outplay all but 1 of:

    Josh Smith, KG, Boozer, Bosh, Brand, Horford, Noah, Bogut, Lopez, Bargnani.

    I just don't see it happening. Monroe's got as much chance of becoming an All-Star as Brandon Bass. Nope, he played his first and last all-star game this week fellas. If he's lucky, he'll play again as a sophomore next year, but that'll be it.
     

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