8 Months Later Monroe or Cousins

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Feb 5, 2011.

  1. max

    max All-Star

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    What is +- for other Bucks in the unit that he plays in? Does anyone know? He has a mix of starts and comming off the bench. Maybe he has played in a high energy bench like the old Alternatorz. If he is the only guy with high +- then I would be impressed.

    Plus this is his 6th year in the league. Have to keep that in mind when comparing to rookies.
     
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    On court, he's a -0.6 points per 100 possessions
    off court, the rest of the team is -8.1 per 100 possessions

    His net +7.6 leads the team (with players who have played more than 8% of total minutes).


    I'm just comparing him to our rook and the other rook that we might have had because he's another young big that we just took a pass on. He's only 23 years old with very limited play in his first 3 season (a lot of D-League time, which was a substitute to college bball).

    Mainly just trying to cast a critical eye on the decision because I believe that it is decisions like this that keep a team from sustaining a winning program. You need development and you need to discover your diamonds in the rough if you are going to fight the natural forces of having a lack of top draft picks (from the winning record).

    Darko was a lucky gift stemming from the Otis Thorpe trade. We squandered it either by picking poorly or by butchering the development. Amir was just a very smart draft pick gamble that I would argue could have been a feather in Joe's cap. Instead, he spent 4 years developing Amir for another franchise. Afflalo was another brilliant draft pick with some strong development that we also squandered.

    Picks like Walter Sharpe and others just flat out didn't work. I'm not going to pretend that Joe should always draft well, because it's a bit of a crapshoot. But when you do draft a guy and he shows signs of greatness... or solidness, you gotta take advantage of the cheap talent before their value goes up. The extreme opposite is buying Ben Gordon in the FA market. His value is fully known and you're going to pay top dollar to get it. I see that as a move that keeps fans excited, but does nothing to "beat" the salary cap.

    Look at all of the baseball teams that succeed with smaller budgets than the rich teams. Their main advantages are that they develop talent well and they trade and acquire well. i.e. they get guys who produce at a higher rate than they have to pay them.
     
  3. max

    max All-Star

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    True we did essentially spend a lot of resources developing him for another team.

    This year - is he part of a special unit? They are a pretty bad team so overall they will have bad numbers. Is there anyone else on the team with +- near his?
     
  4. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Great points. We practically gave away two of the better draft picks Joe had this decade.
     
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Amir has started 33 out of 51 games. Reggie Evans was the starter at the beginning of the year and Amir basically replaced him when he went down with a year-ending injury. Reggie was having an incredible year rebounding wise with 16 per 36 minutes, but he wasn't scoring at all with a .360 FG%. He also wasn't blocking shot. Overall, I'd say that Amir has probably permanently established his starting role, especially now that his foul rate is down to a level that would allow him to average 40+ mpg.

    Amir has been on the court for 1,329 minutes and they are -60.
    Amir has been off the court for 1,167 minuts and they are -289.

    As far as the +/-, I missed 2 that have better net on/off +/-. Wright and Dorsey. Wright has played 20% of their minutes and Dorsey is at 18% (both bench players with occasional starts... 13 between them).
     
  6. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Monroe interview

    Didn't want to start another thread, so here it goes. DBB has a transcript of the recent WDFN interview w/ Greg Monroe: WDFN interview with Greg Monroe - Detroit Bad Boys

    This is very interesting to read.
     
  7. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    He's doing his best to get rid of the clueless label. Seems like he's really improving. The rotations is approved by the majority of this forums members and he's developing the rooks. He might be lurking.
     
  8. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Considering the first several years were with Detroit, you got to give a medal to Amir just for being any good at all. The last thing we did was develop Amir. As far as I can tell, Amir got worse each year we had him, due to extreme non-use. By the time we did play him, the rust on him was so thick he was just a shell of himself as far as his offensive game. Now, his defense on the other hand was still very good - and even his foul troubles evaporated anytime we actually played him steady minutes (which we did do every here and there toward the end of his time here.)

    Bottom line: Dumars did a fine job of finding Amir at #60 in the draft and then did an utter stupid thing in letting him go for nothing to make room to sign Wilcox, a player not even a third as good as Amir. (Not to mention we also gave Afflalo away to make room for Wilcox - and Afflalo is a starter on a very good team now while Wilcox has barely played since we got him. In all, one of the worst moves Dumars ever made - letting two of his best defensive players go - which put us out of the playoffs last year as much as inept coaching and injuries did.)(oh, and just defense? Hardly, these two guys, if we had a coach with a clue, would have also been two of our most efficient scorers.)

    (I must add - Curry had it right at the start of the season where he coached. He put Amir in as the starting PF along with Sheed at center. This was a perfect fit for Amir. Amir was assigned the task of running hard - getting back on defense for instance - while Sheed could take it easy and use all his energy for tough interior D and scoring. With Billups, Rip, and Tay the other 3 starters, plus Afflalo and Stuckey coming off the bench as our backup guards, we were poised to make some noise deep into the playoffs. Then Dumars completely torpedoed the team by giving away Billups in a cap move.)
     
  9. max

    max All-Star

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    Amir was basically beaten out by Maxiel except for that stretch when Curry was starting him. Why did he stop? Because Amir was picking up 2 or 3 fouls half way though the 1st quarter which put the other team on the charity stripe early.

    He is talented but was always a dumb player when he was here - forgetting plays, dumb fouls.

    I am glad he has found his niche. Toronto has won 5 less games than us so far this year so.
     
  10. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Amir is a taller version of JJ, but I believe that JJ will turn out to be a signficantly better all around player.

    I thought Amir had a chance to be a star in this league, but I think his peak now is as a good role player.

    JJ seems like a smarter player - he makes more really good and winning basketball plays, and he's going to turn out to be a much better offensive player than Amir - especially as a shooter. That said, I've always loved Amir's ability and potential to score when he gets the ball in the paint. The guy has great hands, and is a super athlete.

    I wouldn't hate at all having Amir as a back up PF, Daye playing SG and SF, and JJ playing PF and backup SF. Amir is exactly the type of guy who would compliment Monroe - a major leaper and shot blocker, high percentage rebounder, great interior finisher, that would compliment Monroe's high post game and great passing skills. But JJ and Daye are great fits in their own right with Greg.
     
  11. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Yeah. That's twice. :flypig::flypig:

    I, like Dumars, did not think the Aflacalalacacola or Amir losses would be any big deal. I also thought Wilcox would work out. I also believed getting rid of Billups for Iverson was a good move for the team.

    But unlike Dumars, I don't get paid hundreds of thousands to build the team. Nor do I watch any of the games. I'm wondering whether he does?

    What is worse. Dumars not watching the games and being lazy, or Dumars watching the games but being stupid?
     
  12. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Dumars will have the final laugh when we win it all in 2014.
     
  13. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    ESPN Insider rates Monroe as the second best rookie behind Blake Griffin. Article talks about Monroe's ceiling and how he just keeps getting better and better.

    Monroe will end up being an all-star. If you look at most of the Georgetown Centers they usually get progressively better every year, Monroe is no exception.
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I hope that's true. His style of play is the kind that doesn't typically get noticed in an all-star type of way though. Duncan is the rare exception and all of his Championships helped sustain the rep.
     
  15. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Joe picked him so he must be better...
     
  16. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The true measure is how well Amir's fantasy basketball owners are doing in their respective leagues...
     
  17. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    :nod: :MusicBigGrin:
     
  18. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

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    I was on vacations so.. Long time since I don't log in and read you, people.

    Monroe is really what we were expecting of him..

    But HOW is that ESPN rates Monroe as the second best behind Griffin??.. Where is John Wall in there??

    I mean.. I love our rookies but if ESPN thinks that Monroe is better than Wall.. I don't know man.. I don't see it that way.

    About Cousins or Monroe.. it's hard to say.. Cousins has that "hunger" that reminds me of the young KG (not about style of play, just, attitude and all that..)

    Attitude is very important, Monroe is like Duncan, peaceful and quiet.. But if he can give us what Duncan gave to the Spurs, I have no problem with that LOL
     
  19. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Thorpes rookie rankings on ESPN are about which rookie is playing the best at the time of the rankings - not a projection about which rookie he feels will be the best pro down the line. He's explicit about that.
     
  20. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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