2nd Round Game 4 - At Chicago May 13 3:30PM

Discussion in '2007 Playoffs' started by max, May 6, 2007.

  1. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,249
    Likes Received:
    374
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    The only "effect" it had was getting Saunders to take Wallace out of the game. It was not successful at any point in ANY game in getting MIA a win whereas they would have lost had they not hacked Ben.

    As a matter of fact, no team has won a game where they used that strategy to try to get the ball back.

    Hell, Dunleavy invented the damn strategy and HE's never won a game trying to do it. Doc Rivers tried it relentlessly against us, when we had Ben, and failed repeatedly. Dozens of teams have tried it against Shaq every season and lose every time they try it.

    As far as I'm concerned, even if all you "odds" people found a game in which it worked...the "odds," as you like them, are far and away NOT in favor of using this strategy as it results if far more losses than wins (if any).
  2. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,283
    Likes Received:
    287
    Hack-Ben did not work last season, Skiles never pulls Ben out in the 4th quarter. All is good in Ben land.

    The Guy had a great yesterday. Be happy with that.
  3. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,249
    Likes Received:
    374
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR

    I'll decide what to be happy with, thank you.
  4. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    a cave
    As long as you are happy more often than not, I'm fine with that :)
  5. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    a cave
    In a roundabout way I'm sort of glad for this loss.

    I started thinking about going into the next round with a record 8 game winning streak, and how to hold serve the Pistons would have to stretch that to 10, and the odds against doing that...

    Either way this can actually be for the best. :)
  6. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,283
    Likes Received:
    287
    True. Its like one of those seasonal winning streaks when you know a loss is soon pending.

    Reading the news clips today this appears to be a good old classic Pistons mail in deal. Especially after the great comeback in game #3.

    "
  7. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Oberlin
    as far as hack a ben goes: i lean towards low's position. i comprehend that if you look at it purely from the standpoint of ft % it might seem like a good idea. but i think there's a psychological factor that needs to be taken into account. first, because it disrupts the "flow" of the game (which if you are in the middle of a rally really does make a difference in my view) and second because it seems to me to send a message to your players that their defensive effort won't be good enough to get the job done (again, the wrong message to send just at the moment when the pistons defense was getting more stops).

    however, that said, that is definitely not the reason we lost. in my view, we lost because a) defensive intensity was missing until the 4th quarter (and in this i include the vast rebounding differential) and b) there was little sharing of the ball on offense (except for that little run in the 2nd quarter). to a lesser degree, we just had some open looks that have been falling not go for us.

    the first point is pretty obvious i think and made glaringly obvious by the sudden appearance of pistons defense in the 4th quarter. this seems like a clear case of mailing it in for three quarters, as someone else said, or of reading their own press clippings and disrespecting the bulls. we are a better team, sure, but they don't suck and we're in peril if we treat them like we treated orlando. i wouldn't underestimate the pride factor in chicago's favor in sunday's game, but i don't believe that accounts for hinrich going off. partly he was just on a roll, partly though a lot of those were easy open jumpers or layups off drives (or setting up others on the break).

    as for the second point, chauncey's foul trouble certainly hurts us, but so does c-webb's reduced minutes. c-webb makes a difference even when he's not scoring. his passing ability is really astonishing and i wonder if letting him stay out there a little longer making good passes, even when he's having trouble scoring, wouldn't eventually get him back in the rhythm. this is not meant to knock dyess, who i believe is an important contributor (including in some ways that c-webb can't or doesn't match). it's just to say that the smoothness of the pistons offense depends on sharing the ball (and liimiting turnovers), and that seems to happen most and best when chauncey and webber on the floor. in any event, i think these are big factors in accounting for rip and sheed's decreased productivity on offense.

    so it's just to state the obvious i guess: the pistons regressed for a day to an over-confident, unfocused and half-hearted effort on both ends of the court. i don't think the series is in jeopardy of course (and i agree that in the long run, looking ahead, the loss might be a blessing), but i sure hope they wake-up before tuesday because i think that as far as their title hopes are concerned, game 5 is a must win game. lose game 5, the series likely goes 7 games and if the pistons win in 7, they will go into the ecf physically and psychologically off. they need to demonstrate, in game 5, that game 4 was an anomaly in the scheme of this year's otherwise excellent playoff run.
  8. Nemo

    Nemo Hall of Fame Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    11,379
    Likes Received:
    1,027
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    Pistons started feeling pressure of the playoff winning streak. They're much better when they feel loose. Don't want to get too focused too soon. I believe these guys really understand their "off switch"..........
    This will be the last series where we see a player getting hacked cause he can't shoot foul shots..............Is that clear FLIP !!!!!!!!!
    :) :gun1: :) :gun1:
  9. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,305
    Likes Received:
    695
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    In my experience, every team loses its focus. What you didn't see last time was them getting back on track. It will be good to see the team respond in the right way.
  10. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,587
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Sterling Heights, MI
    i tried watching the 1st half last night and shut it off near the end of the 1st. it was very clear we didn't come to play, and sheed hitting that 3 to start the game was probably the worst thing that could've happened. we started to give them the same amount of respect as we gave orlando (read: none), and it showed because we played the game like it was against orlando.

    but chicago is much better than that, and they certainly reminded the pistons of that yesterday. i still think we've gotten hosed on calls all series, but until sunday we had done a good job of playing through it.
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    16,991
    Likes Received:
    2,474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Dyess is really making me uncomfortable right now. I know he's doing a lot of rebounding for us, but where this his offense go?

    The combination of Webber and Dyess not showing up on offense is a killer. With Sheed playing the perimeter, these guys are our interior presence.


    The worst part about that game yesterday was that every time a call went against us, or we made a stupid play, it seemed like the Bulls drained a 3 to reinforce our frustration.
  12. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southfield, MI
    All of these comments make me glad I bit the bullet and took the Mothers to dinner during gametime. Honestly I'm kind of happy we'll play one more game for the home crowd, while shortening our downtime ahead of the next opponent.

    With that said, LETS END THIS THING ALREADY.
  13. webz

    webz All-Star Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,173
    Likes Received:
    444
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    the main thing about the loss is that it shouldn't result in a turnaround of momentum. it would have been much worse had the bulls gone on to win by 25 and go into game 5 on a high, feeling like they had solved some of their problems.

    they just managed to hang on at home and it took a great effort from them. hinrich hardly missed any of his long jumpshots.

    flip played a good game.

    don't stress too much about c-webb. if we make it to the next round webber should be back to himself against big ZZZZZZ and gooden. they have no chance of stopping him in the lane, and his lack of lateral D will be less noticable. remember webber is going up against an active, quick, athletic bulls team. against the cavs, or even nets it won't be a problem so much.

    i was a bit frustrated they didn't go to tay more in the second half, especially in the 3rd.
  14. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    506
    Location:
    Flint
    The hope is that they will play minor minutes. We went quite a spell in this game with someone else besides Billups running the point. My point is that our odds of winning it all increase if you plan for such things as injuries, or extensive foul trouble. Last season it was Sheed with an ankle injury, while believe it or not, Dale Davis was already on the roster, as was Maxiell. Just that they had not played any and therefore could not come in and take some of Sheed's minutes. Did I mention we traded away Darko, and if thats not bad enough, we never played Cato any. We just flat out ignored the concept of depth at the big position.

    By the way, I love Joe Dumars, but I sure don't think his opinion on this matter is very good. Last year he pretty much stated that if we lost any of our starters we were toast, and so what. He has changed his tune this season, but it does not excuse him for last season. Was he backing up his coach in saying this kind of thing? I have to think so as I hate to think bad about Dumars.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    16,991
    Likes Received:
    2,474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Who was the last team to win a title with an injured starter?

    I don't know the answer.
  16. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,249
    Likes Received:
    374
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Wasn't it the '80 Lakers with Magic at center?
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    19,889
    Likes Received:
    1,733
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    1994/5 Rockets - Vernon Maxwell (Sam Cassell)
  18. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,404
    Likes Received:
    71
    Location:
    Windsor, Ontario
    He also punched Flip Jr in his Flip Jr! Check out the 45 second mark of that clip, just after they freeze the shot. Hinrich PUNCHES Flip in the groin. I completely missed it when I first watched it.

    Man, that is NOT cool.

    I'll even repost the link:
    YouTube - Murray Posterizes Hinrich

Share This Page