2nd Round Game 4 - At Chicago May 13 3:30PM

The only "effect" it had was getting Saunders to take Wallace out of the game. It was not successful at any point in ANY game in getting MIA a win whereas they would have lost had they not hacked Ben.

As a matter of fact, no team has won a game where they used that strategy to try to get the ball back.

Hell, Dunleavy invented the damn strategy and HE's never won a game trying to do it. Doc Rivers tried it relentlessly against us, when we had Ben, and failed repeatedly. Dozens of teams have tried it against Shaq every season and lose every time they try it.

As far as I'm concerned, even if all you "odds" people found a game in which it worked...the "odds," as you like them, are far and away NOT in favor of using this strategy as it results if far more losses than wins (if any).

I'll decide what to be happy with, thank you.

As long as you are happy more often than not, I'm fine with that

In a roundabout way I'm sort of glad for this loss.

I started thinking about going into the next round with a record 8 game winning streak, and how to hold serve the Pistons would have to stretch that to 10, and the odds against doing that...

Either way this can actually be for the best.

as far as hack a ben goes: i lean towards low's position. i comprehend that if you look at it purely from the standpoint of ft % it might seem like a good idea. but i think there's a psychological factor that needs to be taken into account. first, because it disrupts the "flow" of the game (which if you are in the middle of a rally really does make a difference in my view) and second because it seems to me to send a message to your players that their defensive effort won't be good enough to get the job done (again, the wrong message to send just at the moment when the pistons defense was getting more stops).

however, that said, that is definitely not the reason we lost. in my view, we lost because a) defensive intensity was missing until the 4th quarter (and in this i include the vast rebounding differential) and b) there was little sharing of the ball on offense (except for that little run in the 2nd quarter). to a lesser degree, we just had some open looks that have been falling not go for us.

the first point is pretty obvious i think and made glaringly obvious by the sudden appearance of pistons defense in the 4th quarter. this seems like a clear case of mailing it in for three quarters, as someone else said, or of reading their own press clippings and disrespecting the bulls. we are a better team, sure, but they don't suck and we're in peril if we treat them like we treated orlando. i wouldn't underestimate the pride factor in chicago's favor in sunday's game, but i don't believe that accounts for hinrich going off. partly he was just on a roll, partly though a lot of those were easy open jumpers or layups off drives (or setting up others on the break).

as for the second point, chauncey's foul trouble certainly hurts us, but so does c-webb's reduced minutes. c-webb makes a difference even when he's not scoring. his passing ability is really astonishing and i wonder if letting him stay out there a little longer making good passes, even when he's having trouble scoring, wouldn't eventually get him back in the rhythm. this is not meant to knock dyess, who i believe is an important contributor (including in some ways that c-webb can't or doesn't match). it's just to say that the smoothness of the pistons offense depends on sharing the ball (and liimiting turnovers), and that seems to happen most and best when chauncey and webber on the floor. in any event, i think these are big factors in accounting for rip and sheed's decreased productivity on offense.

so it's just to state the obvious i guess: the pistons regressed for a day to an over-confident, unfocused and half-hearted effort on both ends of the court. i don't think the series is in jeopardy of course (and i agree that in the long run, looking ahead, the loss might be a blessing), but i sure hope they wake-up before tuesday because i think that as far as their title hopes are concerned, game 5 is a must win game. lose game 5, the series likely goes 7 games and if the pistons win in 7, they will go into the ecf physically and psychologically off. they need to demonstrate, in game 5, that game 4 was an anomaly in the scheme of this year's otherwise excellent playoff run.

Pistons started feeling pressure of the playoff winning streak. They're much better when they feel loose. Don't want to get too focused too soon. I believe these guys really understand their "off switch"..........
This will be the last series where we see a player getting hacked cause he can't shoot foul shots..............Is that clear FLIP !!!!!!!!!

i tried watching the 1st half last night and shut it off near the end of the 1st. it was very clear we didn't come to play, and sheed hitting that 3 to start the game was probably the worst thing that could've happened. we started to give them the same amount of respect as we gave orlando (read: none), and it showed because we played the game like it was against orlando.

but chicago is much better than that, and they certainly reminded the pistons of that yesterday. i still think we've gotten hosed on calls all series, but until sunday we had done a good job of playing through it.

Dyess is really making me uncomfortable right now. I know he's doing a lot of rebounding for us, but where this his offense go?

The combination of Webber and Dyess not showing up on offense is a killer. With Sheed playing the perimeter, these guys are our interior presence.


The worst part about that game yesterday was that every time a call went against us, or we made a stupid play, it seemed like the Bulls drained a 3 to reinforce our frustration.

All of these comments make me glad I bit the bullet and took the Mothers to dinner during gametime. Honestly I'm kind of happy we'll play one more game for the home crowd, while shortening our downtime ahead of the next opponent.

With that said, LETS END THIS THING ALREADY.

The hope is that they will play minor minutes. We went quite a spell in this game with someone else besides Billups running the point. My point is that our odds of winning it all increase if you plan for such things as injuries, or extensive foul trouble. Last season it was Sheed with an ankle injury, while believe it or not, Dale Davis was already on the roster, as was Maxiell. Just that they had not played any and therefore could not come in and take some of Sheed's minutes. Did I mention we traded away Darko, and if thats not bad enough, we never played Cato any. We just flat out ignored the concept of depth at the big position.

By the way, I love Joe Dumars, but I sure don't think his opinion on this matter is very good. Last year he pretty much stated that if we lost any of our starters we were toast, and so what. He has changed his tune this season, but it does not excuse him for last season. Was he backing up his coach in saying this kind of thing? I have to think so as I hate to think bad about Dumars.

Who was the last team to win a title with an injured starter?

I don't know the answer.

Wasn't it the '80 Lakers with Magic at center?

He also punched Flip Jr in his Flip Jr! Check out the 45 second mark of that clip, just after they freeze the shot. Hinrich PUNCHES Flip in the groin. I completely missed it when I first watched it.

Man, that is NOT cool.

I'll even repost the link:
YouTube - Murray Posterizes Hinrich