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2016/2017 NBA Trades, Signings, FA, and other Happenings

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Apr 16, 2016.

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  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You're so negative. If you believe that Dre can learn to shoot FTs one day, then you have to believe that Ish can improve his jumper.
     
  2. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I never said Dre can learn to shoot FTs. I think his only hope is to go underhanded.....and we all know that won't happen.

    If we want to win a title, do we want to put Ish up against Curry, Westbrook, Irving, Wall, Thomas, Lowry, Paul, etc.? We would lose the PG matchup every time. It doesn't mean we couldn't win a title with Ish starting. We would just have to have studs at several other positions to compensate.
     
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  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    If you don't think Dre can hit FTs, isn't that a bigger problem than Ish being a mid-range and layup oriented smurf?

    This is like complaining about the music on the Titanic after it has hit the iceberg.
     
  4. greenbeerd13

    greenbeerd13 All-Star

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    By this logic, you're basically telling me that Dwayne Dedmon is more valuable than Drummond, Cousins, and Davis because he plays for a better team.
     
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  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Or maybe he is actually a better player and your metric for deciding who is good and who is bad is flawed ...

    Heart is not a statistic that is measured in the boxscore, but it wins a LOT of ball games.
     
  6. greenbeerd13

    greenbeerd13 All-Star

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    Alright so it's official, we're trading Drummond for Dedmon in the offseason, here comes the title.. wear that heart like a shield Dwayne, and lead us the way!
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    On a per possession basis, Ish is right on his career averages this year in pretty much all categories.

    Here are the teams that saw what we saw and passed on him:
    HOU, MEM, GSW, ORL, MIL, PHO, OKC, PHI, NOP, and PHI

    Including us, that is 11 teams in 7 seasons.

    It's just tough for a PG to have a .292 career 3-point shooting average and a .658 FT average, no matter how many assists you dish out. If you do, you better be one of the best defenders in the league, which he is not.

    He is a very good backup PG if he refrains from shooting. Good attitude, protects the ball, uses his speed to explore the defense, pushes the tempo.


    Even in the mid-range, where we think he excels, he's really just slightly above average for our team and that is with a lot of play against other benches in his figures.. He shoots .442 on mid range shots, which is worse than Harris, Morris, Baynes, and Udrih and only a fraction better than Reggie and KCP. It's not like we can't dump the ball to Morris on every possession and get than shot whenever we want.


    On non-corner 3-pointers this season, he is 17-72 (.236). Expected value on those is worse than a Dre trip to the FT line, which the other team purposefully elects as an option sometimes. That is where he spends the majority of his time with the ball. So, why wouldn't the defenses sag off that?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
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  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Drummond improving in many aspects is a big problem.

    I love Ish. We are lucky to have him as our backup point guard.
     
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  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    As long as I'm in the stat section of NBA.com, I found this interesting. There is an option to break shots up by zones and they do 1) restricted area, 2) in the pain, but outside RA, 3) mid-range, 4) left corner 3, 5) right corner 3, and 6) above the break 3.

    For mid-range, Stanley Johnson is 38-101 and Dre is 39-103. They are only a few ticks in percentage behind Leuer, who is 82-205. I think that this is both pretty good for Drummond and pretty terrible for Stanley. Baynsey is 3rd on the team with about half the sample size at .455 (25-55). Tobias and Morris are our mid-range dominators with .479 and .457 averages respectively... on many attempts.
     
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  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    For Free Throws, 50 Years of Practice Is No Help

    Interesting that the WNBA out shot the NBA a few times from the line.

    With Dre, he may as well try some radically different techniques to see if they help. I don't see him improving his traditional method at this point (unless there is a really good update to his Oculus FT training software).
     
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  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    If Dre would have shot FTs at the league median for centers, we would have had 95 more points this season (assuming that they would have continued to foul him at the same rate, which they probably wouldn't have).

    The equivalent improvement in points from the 3-point line would require the Pistons going from shooting .329 (28th) to .346 (23rd).

    If our 3-point shooting was as good as the Spurs, we would have scored 344 more points with the same number of shot attempts. If our 3 point shooting was at the league median, we would pick up 171 points.


    Just giving some perspective on the magnitude of our problems. On one hand, we have one of the best rebounders in a generation costing us 95 points per season in the weakest part of his game and on the other, we are 171 points behind the league median due to 3-point percentage.

    We currently have the worse of both worlds. We have the Dwight Howard model in the paint (who has a FT problem) with a bunch of Dwight Howards on the arc.


    The most likely path back to SVGs master vision is to have Reggie come back 100% healthy and return to collapsing defenses and giving our perimeter players open looks. Reggie will boost our 3-point percentage and KCP and Tobias should be better with more open looks. But I also think that Morris should be replaced with a better 3-point threat.

    Maybe we can package him with Leuer to free up some space. Move Harris permanently to the starting lineup and actually play Ellenson.
     
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  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I am happy to win another convert so easily!

    Surely the Spurs could toss in a pity 2nd round pick as well.

    Agreed on both counts.
     
  13. greenbeerd13

    greenbeerd13 All-Star

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    I'm not quite sure I understand this one? Would we rather he regress?
     
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  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The issue is that after all of the hullabaloo about FT shooting going into last offseason, he is as bad as his record all-time NBA worst season. LOL

    The idea that Dre is going to become a 50% FT shooter is laughable. I have a better chance of having a growth spurt to 6 feet in height at age 41.
     
  15. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I meant that Dre needs to work on more than just FT shooting. His post game saw some improvement this year, but he needs to figure out when to throw up that jump hook and when to just kick it out and try to re-post with better position. Many areas of his defense (communication, ball screens, closing out on shooters, etc.) need to improve. This year, he started underhand passing his outlets to the point guards. This is slow and very strange, to say the least. He needs to outlet quicker to help start more fast breaks.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Yeah but then he has to run and stuff. He might get sweaty!
     
  17. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Paul Pierce has heart for days and his team wins more games than ours but none of that can make up for the fact that he can barely jog anymore.

    Good numbers generally are reflective of effort. It will always show up. Just because there isn't a "heart" number doesn't mean you can't see a player is putting it all out there through +/-, low TOV%, good defensive stats etc.

    We know when Dre is putting on a poutfest because he turns it over, plays bad defense, gets no steals and doesn't shoot free throws. We know when LeBron locks in because he starts shooting 80% from the field and playing 45mpg.
     
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  18. tirtep

    tirtep All-Star

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    A talented player can put good numbers...effortlessly, that doesn't make him a winner, though.

    Drummond and his double doubles are a classic example, so far.
     
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  19. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I used to call Pierce "Bounce" but then he got too old and slow for that nickname.
     
  20. tirtep

    tirtep All-Star

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    I like Paul Pierce. He is an excellent poker player too, a true ageless "Bounce". :)
     
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