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Important 2016-17 Pistons

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Jun 17, 2016.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It was never a question of personnel or system.

    It's about the will to win. The great Pistons teams and the Spurs team that beat us in '05 had a will to win. It's not a stat. It's a personality attribute shared within the group.

    It's how you get Cinderella teams in any sport. Things click, guys reach a new level, and they shatter expectations.

    That Bulls team seems pretty mentally tough to me. Miami too.

    I'll take mental toughness over just about anything else. Ben Wallace was short. Isiah Thomas was short. Darko was tall.
     
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  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Yeah, this team doesn't show a lot of fight. I agree that there is a difference between playing hard (i.e. doing your job) and fighting.

    Stanley, KCP, Morris, Baynes, and to some extent- Ish, have the most grit. Stanley and KCP are the absolute keepers because they also have the upside potential and the athletic ability/ size to do something very impactful with their grit. Both of them believe that they can guard anybody in the league within 2 positions of their own and they are probably right.

    Reggie J, Harris, and Drummond all play very hard IMO, but there is something missing. With Reggie, he has too much ego involved (cockiness that he can't back up and passive aggressiveness/ pouting on the downside). With Dre, he just doesn't seem high strung enough and is a little immature. And I think that Tobias might be too professional/ too nice.

    Once a team really establishes its culture, guys who might not naturally player a certain way can get on board with it. Energy is contagious. Winning is addictive. To set the culture up, the best players have to have to naturally have the traits though. You can't lead from the bench. You can't lead from the weak side corner 3-point line. You either have to have the ball in your hands or you have to be calling for it in the post.


    Dre is a rare commodity, but he needs to be the one to grow up and show strong leadership. I don't think Reggie J has it in him personally. He can ball, but between the athsma and the ego, I'm not confident that he can be a starting PG for a champion. Dre in his current state, also won't be part of a Champion unless he's part of a super team.

    I also agree that you can't impart heart on a player. Yelling at him won't help. Bringing in Ben Wallace to mentor him won't help. It has to develop from within through failure, criticism, embarrassment, maturity, and self reflection. If management comes to the conclusion that it will never happen, then sell high with patience. There will always be a market for a young, athletic, 7 foot stat machine. I'm not ready to give up on the guy yet, but it is something that is concerning. SVG is the guy that sees everything and has the power to do something about it when he reaches that level of concern. Dumping him now before the trade deadline would have been really dumb. If you're going to do it, do it in the off season when every team has optimism and when they can all create flexibility.
     
  3. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I started watching the 30/30 documentary on the Bad Boys again last night. Watching those guys really emphasizes what this team is lacking - a will to win. As someone had commented in another thread, these are a bunch of happy-go-lucky teens.

    This is a perimeter shooter's league. That's why KCP and SJ are really valuable. I still have hope for Dre to anchor the middle. That's your defensive unit. Which means we need a offensive scoring threat at the PF and a PG that has a desire to win. To me, our core is really KCP/SJ/Drummond. The rest is trade fodder or bench players.

    I'd start Ish, Pope, SJ, Harris, Drummond.
     
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  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    @TaS@TaS that may be your best post in the last year.
     
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  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    It was definitely his best post of the day. I thought maybe he was hitting the bottle early with some of his morning posts.
     
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  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    You just think that because I agree with you. There was one typo in there where I typed Baynes. I actually meant to type Leuer. Stupid auto correct got me.
     
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  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Ha. I definitely have my own time zone.

    You can't drink all day... unless you start in the morning.
     
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  8. tirtep

    tirtep All-Star

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    It was a good post. Why? Because didn't have much statistics in it.... oops, didn't have any. :):):)
     
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  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    No. If you had made a different case but with the same approach, I would have still liked the post a lot. You touched on what makes great teams great. HEART. PASSION. SOUL.

    Not height and athleticism, both of which Darko had.
     
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You pretty much could if you worked at my Uncle's toolshop in the 00s.

    It was crazy. We even smoked indoors right up until it closed in '08.
     
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm post statistics now. I'm on the Roscoe bandwagon.



    Charlie's keys to winning- zeal, focus, and violent hatred.
     
  12. tirtep

    tirtep All-Star

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    I always have thought that in order for this Pistons team to be successful (with Drummond playing the center), a type of Rasheed Wallace player is needed to be paired up with him up front.

    Otherwise, I'm afraid that it's going to be the same old story for years to come.
     
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  13. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    We don't need another player that gives up wide open three-pointers. :stirthepot:
     
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  14. tirtep

    tirtep All-Star

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    What do you mean? "Don't leave Horry open"?

    I can make a case that he did the right thing by trapping Ginobili.

    Don't forget that no Rasheed probably no championship.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
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  15. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Your case would be wrong. :)
     
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  16. tirtep

    tirtep All-Star

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    I don't think so. Let me try:

    1-As far as I recall, our strategy at the time (per Larry Brown) was trapping good players, especially good shooters.

    2-Rasheed followed the instructions.

    3-Somebody had to rotate (Rip).

    4-Ginobili could have made the three points shot by himself.

    5-Rip in an interview after the game said something like "it was everybody's fault".

    6-Ask Lee356. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
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  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    There is no legitimate basketball rationale that would say leaving a great shooter wide open for a game-tying three pointer is a sound strategy.

    Rasheed totally blew that play.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjPgAQQst7U
     
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  18. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  19. tirtep

    tirtep All-Star

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    Bill, he didn't leave him open intentionally. He trapped Ginobili, somebody had to rotate. We had used that strategy successfully for two great years in a row, the championship year, and the following year when we reached the NBA final but lost game seven, actually the fourth quarter of game seven because of....oh, well...you know why.....
     
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  20. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    No, that's not how you play that situation at the end of a game. You do not double team anyone. You don't leave your man. You switch all screens. You don't give up a three pointer. It's one of your basic "time and score" basketball situations. It's Basketball 101. Ask 100 knowledgeable basketball coaches and all 100 of them will tell you the exact same thing.
     
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