2011 CBA Negotiations Thread

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by G-man, Aug 5, 2009.

  1. drmcgraw2000

    drmcgraw2000 First Round Draft Pick

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    I believe Tom Gores not only purchased the Pistons, but also the whole entertainment portfolio from the Davidson's. With the exception of the JD, the coaching/training staff what other Piston expenses is Gores on the hook for if there is no season? It's possible he loses less if there is no season.. I have to assume the Pistons wouldn't have been a very good team translating into very few, if any, sell outs. This might be an example of addition by subtraction. Man I would really like to get my hands on last year's cash flow statement, balance sheet, etc.. Of course, I would have been in line behind the players/agents..
     
  2. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Delonte West taking that job at Best Buy doesn't look so crazy now!
     
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  3. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Who has the deeper pockets? The owners. Who has more revenue streams? The owners. The NHL players came crawling back after missing a year so what makes the NBA players think anything different will happen? It is crazy how a few uninformed players can derail the talks. Sure maybe D-Wade, Pierce and some of the other high profile guy's that was pushing for decertification can hold out. However, guy's like Delonte West and others are going to be on hard times. The union's job is to serve all not a few. The union failed to do its job. There is not a better deal to be had especially after Stern dropped some of the other items like a hard cap or doing away with guranteed contracts. Losing a season of pay checks it is way more than the 2 percentage points of revenue sharing that they are fighting over.
     
  4. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    If I were Kobe...I'd go and play in Europe for 5 mil a year. Then I would host a TV special showing us that he can do just fine on that kind of money. I say it's time to show the owners that NBA life doesn't live or die with them as owners. these owners need to see that it's the talent that puts butts in the seats. Seriously...these guys can live on much less and do just fine, but this action only should be done to make a point to the greedy owners and their henchman Stern. These owners just frost my nuglets...
     
  5. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Linwood...you are my hero...:)
     
  6. drmcgraw2000

    drmcgraw2000 First Round Draft Pick

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    That would require a $20mm reduction in salary. Not to mention the $10mm he gets in endorsements would be reduced since a bulk of his merchandise is sold in the US.

    If this happens then the owners would have endless leverage. They could be like the top superstar lives off $5mm I guess we can offer 20% of each players contract based on Kobe's ratio of US salary/overseas salary.

    Nemo you just fed the owners argument.
     
  7. max

    max All-Star

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    Wonder what the odds are if this goes into next season of the large/mid market owners like NY, LA, Chic, Miami.. breaking off and forming their own league. If they get frusterated enough with the small market cartlels that have been running this.
     
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm sort of enjoying watching this negotiation play out. It helps that the Pistons suck, so no hurry and the more chaos the better. If the league can enjoy their monopoly status, then I don't mind seeing the players act like one too and show their leverage. Most of their leverage is negative, but it's still leverage.

    If the players aren't going to start their own league (even as a bluff), then they need to start bluffing harder on the overseas bit. Here's my question... at what point are the previous contracts null and void? In other words, if a player like Rip decided to go play in Europe, what would happen to his current contract? Would he be able to rejoin the NBA in 2 years (as a hypothetical... not that the league would value a 40 year old with an ego problem).
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    They must have non-competes preventing that scenario I would imagine.

    It would be funny though if a 3% difference in revenue splitting caused the breakup of the entire system.
     
  10. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Per Crain's Detroit the Pistons were in the red the last two years... they were one of the teams that participated in the low interest loans offered by the league...
    More stuff from Crain's... "A single fan is worth $88.26 per game to the Pistons, according to the Fan Cost Index compiled by the Chicago-based sports research firm Team Marketing Report and published last November. The NBA’s FCI average is $94.81.
    The calculation is derived by the firm’s formula for estimated fan spending: A fan at the Palace buys a ticket at $42.76 (average price), a $7 beer, a $3.50 soft drink, a $3 hot dog, a $5 program and a $17 hat and pays $10 for parking.
    By that formula, each game generates about $1.9 million in fan spending. So eight lost games is $15.5 million in lost fan game-day revenue — before expenses are applied.
    A full season of sellouts at the 22,076-seat Palace, based on the Fan Cost Index, would generate a maximum potential of $79.8 million over the 41 home games."

    To your original point of why did Gores purchase the team?... how 'bout a nice write off :^)
     
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  11. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    I mentioned that awhile ago as a viable option...
     
  12. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    In my argument, the owners are left holding the bag. Empty arenas with rent to pay, skeleton staff salaries to consider. ect...They no longer have the marquis players to fill the buildings because all the good players have left.

    Kobe...and all who follow would eventually increase their salaries through increased interest in their brand over in Europe and China, and the merchandise dollars would follow.

    A high price to pay, but ending the NBA as we know it is an option...:cold:
     
  13. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/8300/two-economists-explain-the-nba-lockout

    This is a great, succint analysis of the two sides in this lockout.

     
  14. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Paraphrasing the article I linked to above, the owners have other revenue sources. I think the arena rent and skeleton staff salaries are easy to absorb for a few years. The players' next-highest income sources are much lower than what they can make in the NBA. So the players are financially devastated by missing a season.
     
  15. drmcgraw2000

    drmcgraw2000 First Round Draft Pick

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    Keep in mind the total salary for the team is upwards of $60mm per season, and the $78mm represents the MAX they could make from attendance. So the best case scenario is a $18mm profit (only speaking in terms of salary minus attendance). We both know that they wouldn't have sold out all 41 home games. So not only do you have a tax write off he still has the opportunity to rent out the Palace for other events to make up some of the $78mm he will lose if the season is lost.
     
  16. drmcgraw2000

    drmcgraw2000 First Round Draft Pick

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    Nemo, this is where I think you are wrong. The arenas overseas do not accommodate the same number of fans as we do here in the US. As for the merchandise dollars you might be correct in regards to the EU, but since China has no copyright laws I can't see a scenario where they generate much revenue from sales..

    Also keep in mind that if you play overseas (let's say Europe) as an American you are going to pay a much higher tax then here in the US. That $5mm quickly becomes $2.5mm, not to mention Hedging strategy. Sorry this is something near and dear to my heart (I am a treasury consultant), so the player (or manager) must decide how are they going to hedge the Euro against the dollar, and how much of it should be hedged. It doesn't sound like a big deal, but if there is a 4% swing between the Euro and dollar you are talking about a nice chunk of change, not to mention a player with a heavily reduced salary will be looking at every possible way to earn (or at least not lose) any additional coin.

    I believe in free market, but the fact is the NBA is the highest paying league going today. If the players chose to play elsewhere they will lose a considerable amount of money in opportunity costs. Maybe one day a league will be formed that competes with the NBA, but I would guess that no active player will be playing by the time that happens. At the very least the NBA has a distribution channel that his HUGE and took 64 years to get where it is today.
     
  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Aren't there are revenues (TV, merchandise, etc.) that you are not considering?
     
  18. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    As far as I know, he can't schedule events that would conflict with previously scheduled basketball dates. That would get the league in trouble. I'll try to find the article I read about this, but the gist was that it violates the labor agreement. The only way they can get around it is if they do something like schedule a concert event for the nights before and then add an additional night last-minute or something similar. Maybe it works if they actually cancel the games first, though.
     
  19. drmcgraw2000

    drmcgraw2000 First Round Draft Pick

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    Keep in mind the total salary for the team is upwards of $60mm per season, and the $78mm represents the MAX they could make from attendance. So the best case scenario is a $18mm profit (only speaking in terms of salary minus attendance). We both know that they wouldn't have sold out all 41 home games. So not only do you have a tax write off he still has the opportunity to rent out the Palace for other events to make up some of the $78mm he will lose if the season is lost.

    I think you missed that piece :).
     
  20. drmcgraw2000

    drmcgraw2000 First Round Draft Pick

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    Once the season is officially canceled, then the schedule will open up.
     

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